Personally, I'm a little tired of these "GD is full of non constructive trolls!" threads/points of view. Honestly, this community is not filled with these kinds of punks. Remember, we're on the Internet:

• Cultures are very different. In some cultures, being blunt is the norm, and in others, being blunt is taken as being offensive. Just take in what someone is saying and assume they aren't trying to be offensive, and if they come across that way, first assume it's a cultural difference and accept it rather than get offended.
  
• Don't read too much into things. Just because you start out saying "I wanna make teh next WoW!!1" and someone responds with "An MMO is totally unrealistic at this point for you, you'll fail, try something else" does NOT mean they really said "You're a terrible person and will never amount to anything and you'll never make a game."
  
• Don't take things personally. If you say "I have a totally revolutionary game idea that's NEVER been done before... how do I sell my idea?" and someone responds "I doubt that it's truly never been done before, ideas are a dime a dozen, no one wants to buy your idea" don't interpret it as "Your idea sucks." It simply means that ideas don't really sell.
  
• It's ok to be wrong. Gosh I hate it when people refuse to admit that a) they're wrong; or b) someone else knows more; or c) maybe that other idea is actually better.
  
• We're not psychics. If you suck at explaining your problem/question, it's your fault people can't give you meaningful responses or if people tell you "X is better" and you say "But X is specifically not available to me" when you never mentioned that before. Clarify misunderstandings and responses.
  
• Be grateful. I hate it when I see someone who gets upset if a) they aren't getting responses fast enough; or b) someone misunderstands something and responds to something you didn't actually ask; or c) feel entitled. Just be nice and polite. Clarify and thank.
  
• Learn to take criticism constructively. It's entirely up to you whether or not criticism is constructive. Honestly. Even if someone doesn't express it in a very constructive way (see cultures above), you can still take it constructively.
  
• Thicken your skin. If you have a soft skin, you will bleed. Horribly. Probably to death. Even if someone calls you a block headed nincompoop, don't freak out. Just accept the fact that there are ~7 billion people in this world, and yes, some of them are douche bags. Let it go. Be better than that.
  
• You can still act like a grown up, you know. I hate it when people say "That hurt my feelings and it doesn't help me" to everyone but the person who offended them. If someone is rubbing you the wrong way, feel free to tell them! If you feel like someone is doing more damage than good, send a PM to them! Be an adult about it though. Don't just whine. Most people are reasonable. Some are idiots, and you'll learn quickly who the idiots are, and then you can just tune them out and completely ignore them.
  
• Anything else I forgot to add to this list.
  

It's good to encourage people, and it's good to give them reality checks. But it's not good to forget we're on the Internet here...




Cornstalks, I agree with everything you wrote here on lone standing basis, but I feel strongly that we should not oppose positive peer pressure and calls for civility.

Everybody here is making a contribution in this thread and we are making progress! Thanks so much for this, Lance, and everyone else! Good stuff!


3Ddreamer

First is extremely laziness. The number of questions I see that could be answered with six seconds of Googling is astounding, but generally even those are treated far more civilly than they probably deserve. There are also the "I got C++, how make game?" questions, which take lazy to a whole new level. Again I am still shocked at the treatment such a lazy question ellicits in these parts... I have seen pages of answer to a question someone took 2 seconds to write and often didn't bother with spelling or grammar checking in the least. On a near daily basis, I see two or three near identical threads on the same page! Yet, people still take the time and effort to respond to each of them.

That was my first thought. It is quite hard to be polite, when the exactly same question is asked, and there are 5-8 threads on the SAME FREAKIN PAGE on the For Beginners topic list. They seem not only lazy for some googling, but lazy to open their eyes. More, they are not lazy to put the total rampage-bait-for-me-words "YET ANOTHER" in front sometimes. The poster even knows that he is farking lazy.

And I don't know, maybe I was always a thinker, but seeing the sentence "I have no idea where to start" just gets me down. Maybe we are just too spoiled by the internet and this "information society".

Sorry, maybe it's a sensitive spot for me.

"I have no idea where to start" just gets me down.

Actually the expression "I have no idea where to start" is pretty much a clear indicator that programming is seriously the wrong volition to be embarking on. Frankly, this is perhaps the defining trait of a good programmer!

That is what somewhat salts the wound, when the persons post is a clear indicator they are more or less bound for failure.

Not to say that if you get stumped, you are a failure as a programmer. But if you lack initiative and research skills, well... seriously, wrong profession.

[quote name='szecs' timestamp='1345744255' post='4972682']
"I have no idea where to start" just gets me down.

Actually the expression "I have no idea where to start" is pretty much a clear indicator that programming is seriously the wrong volition to be embarking on. Frankly, this is perhaps the defining trait of a good programmer!

That is what somewhat salts the wound, when the persons post is a clear indicator they are more or less bound for failure.
[/quote]

Guys, I really hate this attitude of judgement on a stranger like this. You don't know what they are handling in their life. We are all very busy people and some folks are so pressed for time that they literally have no spare time to google or troll the forums at the time they posted. Others may have some kind of disability but want to make games. You can't really think you know every motive for a first time post, do you?

Personally, I dig in there and search, but often in my posts there are added questions which I did not find in another similar thread and sometimes other people's threads are far too wordy with debates about this thing and that. Did you ever consider that? Maybe you are one of those skilled game makers who clogs the threads with unwanted debates about this or that.

So all these things considered, lighten up! You aren't going to stop new people from coming in the forum and posting their annoying and often admittedly lazy topics. The thing which all of us should keep in mind is to be kind and patient. Patient doesn't mean loiter and sulk over the lazy beginner post and then attack them.

Some of the first time posters might have a legitimate reason for their post which you have not considered and it is not attributed to laziness, so try if you can to stop being hyper-judgemental, okay?

Patience, compassion, and other emotional areas are more important to you than exacting some kind of social justice which you may imagine in your minds.


3Ddreamer

1. Guys, I really hate this attitude of judgement on a stranger like this. You don't know what they are handling in their life. We are all very busy people and some folks are so pressed for time that they literally have no spare time to google or troll the forums at the time they posted. Others may have some kind of disability but want to make games. You can't really think you know every motive for a first time post, do you?

2. So all these things considered, lighten up! You aren't going to stop new people from coming in the forum and posting their annoying and often admittedly lazy topics. The thing which all of us should keep in mind is to be kind and patient. Patient doesn't mean loiter and sulk over the lazy beginner post and then attack them.

3Ddreamer

1. Don't have time to think? Disabled to think? No. Sloth for thinking.
Did the 80's 90's guys use google or troll forums?

2. I don't reply to those post, or I reply in a helpful fashion. I gained my last 300 rep points in exactly those threads.

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345746127' post='4972693']
1. Guys, I really hate this attitude of judgement on a stranger like this. You don't know what they are handling in their life. We are all very busy people and some folks are so pressed for time that they literally have no spare time to google or troll the forums at the time they posted. Others may have some kind of disability but want to make games. You can't really think you know every motive for a first time post, do you?

2. So all these things considered, lighten up! You aren't going to stop new people from coming in the forum and posting their annoying and often admittedly lazy topics. The thing which all of us should keep in mind is to be kind and patient. Patient doesn't mean loiter and sulk over the lazy beginner post and then attack them.

3Ddreamer

1. Don't have time to think? Disabled to think? No. Sloth for thinking.
Did the 80's 90's guys use google or troll forums?

2. I don't reply to those post, or I reply in a helpful fashion. I gained my last 300 rep points in exactly those threads.
[/quote]

szecs,

Personally I spend time googling and reading forums, as I indicated in my previous post, so I agree that everybody should do it, too. As a matter of fact, I spend hours each day doing so. Being at the earliest stage as a beginner, I really need it at this time.

What I am saying is that there is no excuse for bashing people in any case, even if they are admittedly lazy. It is that simple. No excuse for uncivil, hurtful posts and I will be quick to report them to Moderators when I see them. Call me a snitch, call me a tattle tail, but offenders will have a reckoning no matter how much they whine when caught. Mature people don't worry about snitches, anyway - only trouble makers worry about snitches.



3Ddreamer

[quote name='szecs' timestamp='1345747200' post='4972698']
[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345746127' post='4972693']
1. Guys, I really hate this attitude of judgement on a stranger like this. You don't know what they are handling in their life. We are all very busy people and some folks are so pressed for time that they literally have no spare time to google or troll the forums at the time they posted. Others may have some kind of disability but want to make games. You can't really think you know every motive for a first time post, do you?

2. So all these things considered, lighten up! You aren't going to stop new people from coming in the forum and posting their annoying and often admittedly lazy topics. The thing which all of us should keep in mind is to be kind and patient. Patient doesn't mean loiter and sulk over the lazy beginner post and then attack them.

3Ddreamer

1. Don't have time to think? Disabled to think? No. Sloth for thinking.
Did the 80's 90's guys use google or troll forums?

2. I don't reply to those post, or I reply in a helpful fashion. I gained my last 300 rep points in exactly those threads.
[/quote]

szecs,

Personally I spend time googling and reading forums, as I indicated in my previous post, so I agree that everybody should do it, too. As a matter of fact, I spend hours each day doing so. Being at the earliest stage as a beginner, I really need it at this time.

What I am saying is that there is no excuse for bashing people in any case, even if they are admittedly lazy. It is that simple. No excuse for uncivil, hurtful posts and I will be quick to report them to Moderators when I see them. Call me a snitch, call me a tattle tail, but offenders will have a reckoning no matter how much they whine when caught. Mature people don't worry about snitches, anyway - only trouble makers worry about snitches.



3Ddreamer
[/quote]
We are misunderstanding each other I guess. At first, you commented on our attitude (which was about thinking that a particular attitude is not for being a programmer), then you are talking about a totally different thing: about bashing. I completely agree with you about the bashing. As I said, I don't bash, and I actually gained a lot of rep points in those threads. I only said it's hard not to bash.

Nor do I bash, and frankly if you viewed that comment as a bash and it was the kind of thing you report for moderation, I would kindly suggest you stop wasting the moderators time on such banal complaints.

In many/most forums rtfm is the typical response to such posts. That it isn't that way here is a testament to the community.

As an aside, if a person doesn't have time to do a modicum of research, they don't have time to succeed at programming.

Well, yeah, szecs....

I don't intend to go on the attack on anyone in particular, but many of the people who are hostile to the lazy people and saying that they will never amount to anything are themselves not being professional about it by wasting time in judging the lazy people.


Remember that if you point the finger you got your other ones pointing at yourself?

Come now, people, you can do better than that, but it will take compassion. In the long run, emotional intelligence is far more important than programming knowledge.

I am done here.


3Ddreamer

Nor do I bash, and frankly if you viewed that comment as a bash and it was the kind of thing you report for moderation, I would kindly suggest you stop wasting the moderators time on such banal complaints.

In many/most forums rtfm is the typical response to such posts. That it isn't that way here is a testament to the community.

As an aside, if a person doesn't have time to do a modicum of research, they don't have time to succeed at programming.

That is not correct about me. I warn people who are hyper-judgemental and on the edge of acceptable that if they cross that line at their toes and go bashing then I will be on it if I see it.

Hyper-judgemental people seem to always be on the edge of bashing people, obviously.


3Ddreamer