Torque 3d! is it worth the time and money for an MMO?
Author
Hello people, this might be interesting bringing up this engine ive herd such bad remarks about the engine but at the same time good alot of the bad ones coming from the bug ridden early versions that seem to have cleaned up a bit in 1.2 release of torque 3d anyways i was wondering if its worth the time and money learning and buying for deving an mmo project upon. please it would be nice if those replying on the topic to be ones who have used version 1.2 and not the bug ridden versions of course next what would the cost and be for renting game servers and what do you think i would need to host my own as in the machine/machines it self and which would be cheaper and better, as for the next question which will definitely say im a total noob is that can a two man dev team handle a mid sized mmo im the one dealing with the looks and my pal does server work true hes already told me some stuff about what well need but id like to hear from the community aswell as for me im comming from unity and udk in hope that this engine will be well worth it soo what do you guys think? it torque 1.2 worth buying learning and overall good enough to spend the next 2years atleast deving an mmo on? hopefully i can get some good answers also feel free to say anything else about torque for im very willing to hear all that is there to be said about it thx in advance guys
Is torque worth $100? Yes, as in: you couldn't replicate it in $100 worth of programming time.
Is it worth you buying it? That depends on the next question.
Can 2 guys make an average MMO in 2 years? No. Look at the credits listing for other average MMOs and ask yourselves if you're more talented and experienced that all of those people combined.
How much will servers cost? Assuming you dont do anything fancy to reduce costs: To begin with, $100/mo. If you get Massive players then very quickly $10,000/mo+.
Is it worth you buying it? That depends on the next question.
Can 2 guys make an average MMO in 2 years? No. Look at the credits listing for other average MMOs and ask yourselves if you're more talented and experienced that all of those people combined.
How much will servers cost? Assuming you dont do anything fancy to reduce costs: To begin with, $100/mo. If you get Massive players then very quickly $10,000/mo+.
This is one area where Hero Engine just makes so much sense.
Not saying that two developers can pull off an MMO, but in terms of normalizing costs for an MMO.
It used to be you had to buy massive amounts of physical hardware and bandwidth to run an MMO, you had to purchase for you peak, and frankly, that would generally be launch, when you can least afford it. Virtualization ( like Amazon EC2 or Google App Engine ), changed the game quite a bit and changed things to a more pay as you go structure ( although at certain points *actually* owning the hardware is cheaper ), that is very friendly to new developers.
Now Hero Engine brings hosting into the equation... they provide an engine, hosting services, billing, etc... and take a fixed cut. It's kinda hard to argue with that as a green behind the ears startup. Hero Engine starts from 99$ a year and goes up to 75K + 7% royalty for a source license.
If I was aiming to make an MMO and I only had two guys and 100$, I think I would go Hero Engine in a heart beat over Torque. If you've never heard of it, Hero Engine is the engine that powers Star Wars: The Old Republic.
Not saying that two developers can pull off an MMO, but in terms of normalizing costs for an MMO.
It used to be you had to buy massive amounts of physical hardware and bandwidth to run an MMO, you had to purchase for you peak, and frankly, that would generally be launch, when you can least afford it. Virtualization ( like Amazon EC2 or Google App Engine ), changed the game quite a bit and changed things to a more pay as you go structure ( although at certain points *actually* owning the hardware is cheaper ), that is very friendly to new developers.
Now Hero Engine brings hosting into the equation... they provide an engine, hosting services, billing, etc... and take a fixed cut. It's kinda hard to argue with that as a green behind the ears startup. Hero Engine starts from 99$ a year and goes up to 75K + 7% royalty for a source license.
If I was aiming to make an MMO and I only had two guys and 100$, I think I would go Hero Engine in a heart beat over Torque. If you've never heard of it, Hero Engine is the engine that powers Star Wars: The Old Republic.
You make no mention of if you've developed games before or not which leads me to think you haven't. In which case your doing things wrong. MMO's are some of the hardest games to make and ARE NOT for newbies. There is a reason for people saying that you should learn how to program before even thinking about making games and even then starting in 2d games rather than 3d (and this is all way before thinking about multiplayer let alone massively multiplayer).
I don't think torque has the sufficient networking libraries included for making an mmo, of course you can use some of your own in it (sourced elsewhere) but then thats more cost ontop of the servers etc that you'll need.
I don't think torque has the sufficient networking libraries included for making an mmo, of course you can use some of your own in it (sourced elsewhere) but then thats more cost ontop of the servers etc that you'll need.
Author
just for an addition i have not made any real games before for i dont really program which my pal is going to be doing. but ive done visualizations and such using mainly udk and i recently worked in unity 3d for a few months going at android dev which i quit because of the piracy rates soaring more than ever....and the intentions arent to have a full scale massive guild wars 2 mmo hah sweet game but no were just simply trying to accomplish something of this area he enjoys managing the server and logic side of things and me the art so were trying to combine those two and see what we can produce its been one day and i made a decent transition the engine is pretty good soo far so it seams like my new dev environment and but another thing guys, lets say i were to recruit people how many do you think i need to pull off a mid sized mmo in lets say a school environment ?
just for an addition i have not made any real games before for i dont really program which my pal is going to be doing. but ive done visualizations and such using mainly udk and i recently worked in unity 3d for a few months going at android dev which i quit because of the piracy rates soaring more than ever....and the intentions arent to have a full scale massive guild wars 2 mmo hah sweet game but no were just simply trying to accomplish something of this area he enjoys managing the server and logic side of things and me the art so were trying to combine those two and see what we can produce its been one day and i made a decent transition the engine is pretty good soo far so it seams like my new dev environment and but another thing guys, lets say i were to recruit people how many do you think i need to pull off a mid sized mmo in lets say a school environment ?
Hmm, mid sized MMO is what ? 2000 concurrent users per world ? I wouldn't count guildwars as an MMO since its so heavily instanced that it plays more like a normal multiplayer game (Not sure about GW2 since i havn't played it but i'm guessing it is similar to the first one)
As for the number of people you need. it really depends on alot of things, if you use Hero Engine its not that extremely difficult from a technical point of view, the challenge then really is to make enough content to fill a world that is large enough to hold 2000 users without things getting crowded and to create interesting gameplay that works with the constraints you get by sticking a massive number of players in a single world, 2 people might be enough, 30 people might not be enough, it all depends on how much content you need and the complexity of the gameplay itself.
Author
hah thx aside from my own 2 maned project id like to introduce the game engine into my school i already have all the engineering classes doing stuff in 3ds max but now i think its time that i leave an engine not too sure if id like to leave torque with absolute beginners soo i gess ill have to find a workaround the thing is id love to use hero engine but i cant find a trail or test anywhere and im not about to buy a package if i cant even test it ofcourse if anyone knows where i could get a download by all means please link me hero seems like the perfect engine but i need to be in it myself to see if i like it and ill probally even bring it into my highschool im leaving in januarary soo thats enough time for them to get a good base im going to set things up with the teacher to have around 40 juniors and seniors or soo to do it hopefully we can even find that number but as of now for this post can you guys tell me how i can obtain a copy of hero as in trail before buy.
Author
so im curious why should i just wop out 300 for an engine i cant test "hero engine" im not sure if ill get anywhere with it so yea what am i suppose to do i guess ill go with torque
chris3d165,
Just a word of advise. If you want to be taken seriously, even on a Game Dev forum, please, you'll get much better response if use proper sentence structure with punctuation and capital letters, as well as breaking the structure into paragraphs.
As for 2 beginners making an MMO, I'm going to tell you to not expect anything for many years. Making an MMO (even a "mid-size" one) is VERY HARD. For game programmers with a decade of experience, it's a difficult task. For beginners, there's much to be learned before tackling MMO's. Good luck going forward, whatever happens.
Just a word of advise. If you want to be taken seriously, even on a Game Dev forum, please, you'll get much better response if use proper sentence structure with punctuation and capital letters, as well as breaking the structure into paragraphs.
As for 2 beginners making an MMO, I'm going to tell you to not expect anything for many years. Making an MMO (even a "mid-size" one) is VERY HARD. For game programmers with a decade of experience, it's a difficult task. For beginners, there's much to be learned before tackling MMO's. Good luck going forward, whatever happens.
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