With that many units and opponents, how about limiting the number of units a player can place per turn, something like this:
Player can place up to 3 or 4 units, and take one action with each. The first 3 or 4 monsters take their turns. Player can place up to 3 or 4 units and take one action with each, but the first batch are still tired. The next 3 or 4 monsters take their turns. Etc until all units and monsters have gone once. Then the first batch of units and monsters have recovered and get to go again.
Alternately, the player places all units at the beginning, then units and monsters alternate (possibly based on initiative) until all have gone once.
Turn Based Games - Initiative
Have you considered the idea of interrupts? That is to say, a unit or hero on can "interrupt" another player's turn with an attack (or some other action) under certain circumstances. This can be used to prevent the "surround him entirely on my turn" weakness of strict turn-based play, because you can both passively and actively limit or at least punish certain moves even when it is not your turn.
Example, using your Heroes vs. Undead scenario:
Your heroes need to cross an open area where they can possible be surrounded quickly. On your turn you move most of them, but you have a wizard hang back in a 'cover' mode. On the Undead turn, if they move within a certain distance of your heroes, this triggers the wizard to interrupt them with an attack. This may either halt their movement, or make a subsequent attack from them on your heroes (who I assume can defend themselves off-turn) too dangerous.
Example, using your Heroes vs. Undead scenario:
Your heroes need to cross an open area where they can possible be surrounded quickly. On your turn you move most of them, but you have a wizard hang back in a 'cover' mode. On the Undead turn, if they move within a certain distance of your heroes, this triggers the wizard to interrupt them with an attack. This may either halt their movement, or make a subsequent attack from them on your heroes (who I assume can defend themselves off-turn) too dangerous.
This is always a quandry when designing tactical games. How about offer players a choice before the game starts?
You could do something like:
( ) Team by team initiative
( ) Parts of teams initiative (like 5 units at a time, alternating back and forth)
( ) Individual initiative set by encounter
( ) Individual initiative set by turn
You could do something like:
( ) Team by team initiative
( ) Parts of teams initiative (like 5 units at a time, alternating back and forth)
( ) Individual initiative set by encounter
( ) Individual initiative set by turn
I personnally prefer a "per-unit" initiative, it makes the game feel more interactive. My 2 cents.
I've always liked the shadowrun 3rd edition system. Where by a characters initiative score determines the order and number of actions they get per round.
Its done by rolling a number of d6 and then subtracting 10 as long as its a positive number the character gets another action. Actions are then declared from lowest to highest for all characters and resolved highest to lowest.
So if I had an initiative score of 21 and you had a score of 7
The turn would play out like follows:
21 - Me
11 - Me
7 - You
1 - Me
Its done by rolling a number of d6 and then subtracting 10 as long as its a positive number the character gets another action. Actions are then declared from lowest to highest for all characters and resolved highest to lowest.
So if I had an initiative score of 21 and you had a score of 7
The turn would play out like follows:
21 - Me
11 - Me
7 - You
1 - Me
Author
This is always a quandry when designing tactical games. How about offer players a choice before the game starts?
You could do something like:
( ) Team by team initiative
( ) Parts of teams initiative (like 5 units at a time, alternating back and forth)
( ) Individual initiative set by encounter
( ) Individual initiative set by turn
Thanks, this is actually something I'm considering. I really don't think it would be all that hard to program provided the mechanics of each unit support the various initiative options.
Author
With the recent game XCOM being a hit (yes a turn based game!), what does everyone think about this topic? XCOM uses group initiative and after playing it for a while I really think this is the way to go.
What I've noticed is that it's very important to be able to move your characters in the order that you want, especially when you have "overwatch" or "guard" triggers that fire on movement. Taking a particular hostile out before moving in and healing your companion is critical to the tactical nature of the game. At this point, I'm not so sure that individual initiative would provide the same tactical feel.
Anyway, I'm having a lot more fun with XCOM and its turn based combat system than I ever did with Diablo 3. I just hoping that the gaming industry takes notice and we see a turn based revival of sorts.
What I've noticed is that it's very important to be able to move your characters in the order that you want, especially when you have "overwatch" or "guard" triggers that fire on movement. Taking a particular hostile out before moving in and healing your companion is critical to the tactical nature of the game. At this point, I'm not so sure that individual initiative would provide the same tactical feel.
Anyway, I'm having a lot more fun with XCOM and its turn based combat system than I ever did with Diablo 3. I just hoping that the gaming industry takes notice and we see a turn based revival of sorts.
Having finished xcom on classic ironman mode I'd say the game would be impossible to play without team initiative. XCOM is very brutal and you are generally heavily out numbered. I found that I needed every action in a turn to either one hit kills enemies or concentrate fire on a single powerful enemy. Since your team members can die so easily if you don't carefully explore and take out each threats quickly you can find yourself overrun and your entire team wiped out. Nothing worse then walking into an area and then having 3 or 4 berserkers backed up by mutons bearing down on you.
Author
Having finished xcom on classic ironman mode I'd say the game would be impossible to play without team initiative. XCOM is very brutal and you are generally heavily out numbered. I found that I needed every action in a turn to either one hit kills enemies or concentrate fire on a single powerful enemy. Since your team members can die so easily if you don't carefully explore and take out each threats quickly you can find yourself overrun and your entire team wiped out. Nothing worse then walking into an area and then having 3 or 4 berserkers backed up by mutons bearing down on you.
Yeah, that's a very important point. The threat level of that game is very high, but at the same time I really like it that way. Of course, you could have all the bad guys attack one guy out in the open on the same turn even with group initiative. Then again, with XCOM the battle never starts with the team being ambushed or in the thick of a battle. You generally have to spend a turn moving just to find the enemy. Therefore, group initiative is never an issue unless the player makes a big mistake with unit positioning. In that sense, group initiative is scenario limiting.
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