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Richard Blues

All from scratch

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Richard Blues    104
Hello gamedevs, I am new to programming and I wish to get help here and be able to finally make a start in my future goal :)
Well, I have planned to make a MMOrpg. Maybe similar to runescape or games like grand fantasia.
My main goal is to create a game. It doesn't matter other types of software programming. I think that the only thing I should focus in is to start programming, and in a future create my own engine.
What kind of languaje I should start with and any books to read if I don't know Anything?
Thanks in advance and greetings to you all!
Good luck!

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lonewolff    1182
LOL, I remember when I started coding in C++. First thing I wanted to do was create an MMORPG.

Seven years later and I realise that I am never going to achieve this, and to be honest, would not want to - anymore...

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n0name    225
I guess Unity3D with C# is also a good way to start...
Lots of tutorials and also the asset store is growing quite nicely.
Lots of free and useful assets there as well.

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JoshuaWaring    1359
I always found that creating a Project Network gives a nice visual road map, which can be of great assistance during development.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_network[background=transparent]
<img class="UMSRatingIcon" id="ums_img_tooltip" />[/background]

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!Null    380
[quote name='alvaro' timestamp='1347865788' post='4980798']
I wonder if film-making forums get posts from people that don't know anything about film-making but want to make a movie like Iron Man 2, and want to know where to start.
[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with having ambition and a goal, even if it is unrealistic. As long as you keep taking the stepping stones to get there.

But its good to ask people, because then your goal is put in perspective.

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Telastyn    3777
[quote name='!Null' timestamp='1347888129' post='4980865']
There is nothing wrong with having ambition and a goal, even if it is unrealistic. As long as you keep taking the stepping stones to get there.
[/quote]

Except that it's painfully unclear to beginners how making hello world or tic tac toe is going to get them to their unrealistic goal since the path to get there is [i]so[/i] long.

It causes beginners dispair since they don't see any meaningful progress, and think the issue is that they're not doing well. Achieving goals is important; far moreso than setting them.

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!Null    380
[quote name='Telastyn' timestamp='1347889187' post='4980869']

Except that it's painfully unclear to beginners how making hello world or tic tac toe is going to get them to their unrealistic goal since the path to get there is [i]so[/i] long.

It causes beginners dispair since they don't see any meaningful progress, and think the issue is that they're not doing well. Achieving goals is important; far moreso than setting them.
[/quote]

I do agree with you. But like I said, although there are many questions like this on this site. It's good for them to be told from many people and get it put in perspective.

I also think the goals of people who have studied some sort of computing subject such as software engineering or computing science (like myself) or are just self learning can be a bit different because they haven't been thought making all the little SEEMINGLY pointless programs that actually teach you a lot about OOP and such

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Serapth    6671
To take the film making metaphor one step further...

If a beginner came in and started with an engine or application ( like say GameMaker or to a lesser degree Unity ), they would actually see progress and be motivated as a result. However in this industry, people have the mindset that they need to start with C++ and creating an engine, which is the film equivalent of starting your movie masterpiece by creating your own camera.

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patrrr    1323
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
Though that sounds like quite an interesting feat.

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lonewolff    1182
If someones goal was to be a billionaire, never having landed a job before, would you encourage them to first go for the billion dollar paycheck?

Or would it be better for them to help them earn their first hundred dollars and then aim for the thousand dollar benchmark, and so on...
Along the way they may realise that being [i]just[/i] a millionaire might be enough.

The OP admits '[i]I don't know Anything[/i]'. You don't apply for the toughest role in the industry if [i]you don't know anything[/i].

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vicx    128
Oh, come on... mmo is just a goal, he will quickly start to respect that word. I used to finished one, but I failed on content (graphics/stats/items) :P
So, the only advise could be - get into C++ (if you want to be more serious in makeing games), alt is c#. Then try to find yourself in Visual Studio 2008 (make at laest playable text game, roguelike/mudlike), then get SDK for DirectX 9.0 and try to invest your language further, straight into world of triangles. Of course that's a huuuge shortcut. Distances between points I've posted are vast like desert. Besides, while writting your first code/projects you will realize whether you're strong enough to pass deeper. The main adventage will be stubbroness :)

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snowmanZOMG    1205
[quote name='alvaro' timestamp='1347865788' post='4980798']
I wonder if film-making forums get posts from people that don't know anything about film-making but want to make a movie like Iron Man 2, and want to know where to start.
[/quote]

Wouldn't Lord of the Rings be more appropriate?

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lonewolff    1182
[quote name='vicx' timestamp='1347969027' post='4981216']
then get SDK for DirectX 9.0 and try to invest your language further
[/quote]
Interesting.

What made you push DX9 over DX10/11?

Not saying DX9 is bad. I purposely use DX9 over 10/11, myself.

Just interested to see where you are coming from :)

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jwezorek    2663
[quote name='alvaro' timestamp='1347865788' post='4980798']
I wonder if film-making forums get posts from people that don't know anything about film-making but want to make a movie like Iron Man 2, and want to know where to start.
[/quote]

They don't.

I think that people who don't know anything about programming think that programming ultimately amounts to typing stuff on a keyboard and that they can implement anything since all they have to do is learn the right stuff to type in on their keyboard. Whereas, for making a movie, you need actors and actresses and sets and costumes and you need special effects and exotic locations, etc. All of which misses the point that

1. You now need most of those things to make a AAA game.
2. Comparing programming to typing is like comparing movie making to pointing a camera.

The programming == typing thing really is a belief that some newbies have though, which is funny. I remember there was a thread on these forums a few years ago in which the poster was speculating on how long it would take him to write MMORPG based on how fast he could type -- i think there was a thread like that, though I may be misremembering. Edited by jwezorek

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Serapth    6671
[quote name='jwezorek' timestamp='1348009529' post='4981466']
[quote name='alvaro' timestamp='1347865788' post='4980798']
I wonder if film-making forums get posts from people that don't know anything about film-making but want to make a movie like Iron Man 2, and want to know where to start.
[/quote]

They don't.

I think that people who don't know anything about programming think that programming ultimately amounts to typing stuff on a keyboard and that they can implement anything since all they have to do is learn the right stuff to type in on their keyboard. Whereas, for making a movie, you need actors and actresses and sets and costumes and you need special effects and exotic locations, etc. All of which misses the point that

1. You now need most of those things to make a AAA game.
2. Comparing programming to typing is like comparing movie making to pointing a camera.

The programming == typing thing really is a belief that some newbies have though, which is funny. I remember there was a thread on these forums a few years ago in which the poster was speculating on how long it would take him to write MMORPG based on how fast he could type -- i think there was a thread like that, though I may be misremembering.
[/quote]



Yeah, but truth is, people think they can just pick up a camera and direct a film.

Hell, I should know better, but I watch so many movies and think "oh screw this, I could do better!". Not to mention all the "found footage' garbage we've been fed in recent years.

/sorry, off topic there. Edited by Serapth

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Bregma    9199
[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1348079422' post='4981774']
I would be curious to do a poll at some point along the lines of:

Which do you think is harder:

-- filming a movie
-- coding a video game
[/quote]

-- quarterbacking your favorite [insert favourite professional athletic competition here] (and winning)

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SimonForsman    7642
[quote name='Bregma' timestamp='1348084263' post='4981797']
[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1348079422' post='4981774']
I would be curious to do a poll at some point along the lines of:

Which do you think is harder:

-- filming a movie
-- coding a video game
[/quote]

-- quarterbacking your favorite [insert favourite professional athletic competition here] (and winning)
[/quote]

My favourite professional athletic competition doesn't have quarterbacks so it would be pretty darn impossible :D

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kazisami    558
I have asked such a same question some times ago and some really awesome advices helped me much, you can read [url="http://www.gamedev.net/topic/630872-lots-of-options-what-to-do/"]that post[/url] if you want a real insight about how pros became pros. :D

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powly k    657
If you're doing amateur level stuff, you can do an awesome short film in a few days, but coding an awesome game, even a simple one, usually takes its time. Depending, of course, on a million factors like the target quality/length/depth, team size, resources etc.

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DaveTroyer    1060
Me-thinks we're getting a bit side-tracked guys.

He asked about where to start, not our views on wanting to create an MMO; which hopefully he'll see how monumental a task that is before getting discouraged from being a game dev and try to aim a bit lower to gain experience.

So, my two cents on where to start as a programmer is to try out C# or Java. I'm not a programmer to say the least, I'm an art guy.
But, I've been able learn enough from C# and Java to help out the real programmers.

And you can make simple games by yourself in Unity with just a little bit of practice, which helps to keep yourself motivated to learn more and more.

Hope this helps!

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CodeCriminal    290
[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1348079422' post='4981774']
I would be curious to do a poll at some point along the lines of:


Which do you think is harder:

-- filming a movie
-- coding a video game
[/quote]

I've been involved in both (programmer/actor though less acting than programming :) ) and that's a tough one lol.
Each of them are equally draining but in different ways, at least that is my opinion... kinda states the obvious haha

[quote name='DaveTroyer' timestamp='1348164862' post='4982109']
Me-thinks we're getting a bit side-tracked guys.

...

Hope this helps!
[/quote]

Ah yes, I apologize.
Ok so I'm pretty tired of dishing out the same old Your-Not-Going-To-Make-X. speech so lets try it a different way,
pick one of the languages below, try several before settling on one if you must.

In no particular order:
- C#
- Python
- Java
- C++

Then, in chosen language, try to implement what you think will be the single most easiest feature to program in your MMOx
If it were me I would probably start with menu system (no fancy GUI or anything, just the ability
to navigate a hierarchy of sub/menu's and have the perform different actions) simple enough.
Then move onto something a little harder, perhaps an inventory (depends on how you want your inventory system to work).
If you manage to achieve that, try to do something a little harder; a chat client! over the interwebs!
(atleast I think its harder, probably because I have never attempted it and have little idea as to what it involves).

Then keep going for as long as you can, the rest of us who were once in your exact position already know the ending to this
story, but at least this way you will gain a serious amount of valuable experience! Edited by roadysix

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