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Sooker

Is XNA dying and MS forcing to C++?

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6677    1054
I would say yes if your aim is 2d. DX has 2d but its not as easy to use as monogame/XNA Edited by 6677

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devbyskc    117
I too am beginning to do game development and decided to try XNA 4.0 with Visual Studio 2010. My basis is that there are a lot of people out there who do not "instantly" upgrade to the latest Microsoft has to offer. Microsoft seems to push out new technology and leave older stuff to whither. But IMHO that is a bad business model. Outside of the USA and possibly the EU, many countries still rely on Win XP and Win 7. So I decided to continue focus on the Win7 desktop market. So far I've been happy with the decision. XNA 4.0 within Visual Studio 2010 gives me all the tools I need to do my game development. Additionally other open source vendors have complementary tools which also fit this environment.

For other newbies like me, I would recommend staying the course with XNA. I have heard that Monogame is planning to release their framework for the Win 7 environment later this year. In conjunction with MonoDevelop that would make a nice alternative to XNA should anyone decide to migrate away from it.

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kd7tck    735
[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1348502206' post='4983253']
I don't quite know why you think were Open Source friendly from; while iD have indeed released older engines as open source for some time they were closed to the point where you weren't allowed to use their tools to create levels for your own game. Valve have no Open Source pedigree that I can think of; they might put out some papers but I can't ever recall them throwing source out into the open.
[/quote]

They are open source friendly, just because you don't release your whole code base doesn't mean you hate open source. The guys behind these companies have always worked with open source projects, like improving open driver compatibility, even now valve is working with linux programmers on many projects. They are not going to throw their hard work out in the open, that would be stupid man. They are smart about it and fund projects that write patches for open source projects of all types. Edited by kd7tck

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ATC    551
I too kinda feel like XNA is in it's death throes, and I would agree that MS is trying to make it slowly "fade away" rather than outright killing it and making a whole bunch of people cry. The problem with XNA from the beginning was building it with Direct3D9 as a back-end... D3D9 is extremely outdated and vastly inferior to 10 and 11. And XNA also leaves you stuck with [i]only[/i] x86 (32-bit) applications. XNA's greatest strength (compatibility with multiple platforms: XBox, PC, Zune, WP7...) is also its greatest weakness; because compatibility with less powerful platforms means that PC games will suffer. I flirted with XNA for quite a while but soon abandoned it in favor of SlimDX.

I strongly suggest migrating from XNA to SlimDX. SlimDX is almost exactly like regular DirectX but with C# and the .NET Framework. In many ways this makes it an even more powerful tool (to me, at least). SlimDX is developed and supported actively by some very brilliant programmers, and it's extremely well written and stable. It has been used in commercial applications successfully, and I think it will only continue to grow in the future as more people become interested in it.

So make the switch to SlimDX. You'll never look back. It may be a bit difficult for you, at first, to deal with DirectX's technical complexity if you're coming from an XNA and/or Python/scripting background. But it will be worth the effort. Once you learn SlimDX it will be easy to learn native DirectX (provided you know some C/C++).

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IndyOfComo    835
Part of this conversation has been "well, if your focus is this, then [blank]". Forgive the complete newbish question but what about those whose focus is XBLIG? Do these other options even matter to them? Edited by IndyOfComo

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BCullis    1955
[quote name='IndyOfComo' timestamp='1348586097' post='4983604']
what about those whose focus is XBLIG?
[/quote]
That's pretty self-explanatory, no? XBLIG is on XBox Live. Since the platform and OS isn't changing, XNA is still perfectly viable (and your only option anyway, I believe)

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ATC    551
[quote name='IndyOfComo' timestamp='1348596372' post='4983666']
It's this part that I wasn't 100% on. Thanks.
[/quote]

For professionals there is the XDK (XBox Development Kit). But the license costs $$$ and Microsoft is selective in who is able to obtain it. If you had a good enough game concept, some money and know what you're doing it could be an option.

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6677    1054
[quote name='ATC' timestamp='1348598250' post='4983671']
some money
[/quote]
Talking a lot of money, not $10000 or something (a large enough amount on its own), multiply that by 10, maybe even 50 or even more....

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Sooker    299
I tried SharpDX the last couple days and have to say that it fells nice, but the lack of documentation is a bit of a problem.
But with the samples and the tutorials wich are there you can make a 2D game without big problems.

I´m Staying at SharpDX [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]

Thanks for your help

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Ultrahead    210
[quote name='Sooker' timestamp='1348805214' post='4984588']
I´m Staying at SharpDX [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]
[/quote]
Wise decision ... :)

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NightCreature83    5002
[quote name='6677' timestamp='1348601481' post='4983691']
[quote name='ATC' timestamp='1348598250' post='4983671']
some money
[/quote]
Talking a lot of money, not $10000 or something (a large enough amount on its own), multiply that by 10, maybe even 50 or even more....
[/quote]
This license however also comes with a full version of VS2010 Professional per devkit so for a company you actually save a bit as a license for VS isn't cheap either.

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Sooker    299
I finally got some time to try SharpDX and have a small core wich can render a triangle. I also read the rastertek DX11 tutorials. It's low api and my concerns are that I am more programming an engine than a game. I will try a pong next, but I feel like I spend 80% to graphic initialization and handling then the actual game

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3Ddreamer    3826
Well, I understand your concern, but you came this far so finishing that "Pong" is the right decision. It will give you the programming needed at this stage.

Progress is being made! [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]



Clinton

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3Ddreamer    3826
Yeah, PacMan is the logical next step after Pong.

If you feel that you have a good grasp after Pong and then PacMan, then you could start easing into 3D simple programming, but keep working on 2D for a while.


Clinton

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BCullis    1955
Is it working for you? Are you able to accomplish your goals with SharpDX? Are you feeling more confident with it the more you use it?

Then yes.

Don't hop around just to find the best possible API. Rethinking your language/API choice is something to do after completing a project and before starting a new one. There's no reason you should have to abandon using SharpDX (or "your API of choice" to be more generic) mid-stream.

[quote name='Sooker' timestamp='1349688761' post='4987923']
I will try a pong next, but I feel like I spend 80% to graphic initialization and handling then the actual game
[/quote]
Do note that SharpDX, being a c# wrapper around DirectX, is still fairly low-level. The SharpDX Toolkit is coming soon which will behave much more like XNA did (giving a high-level interface to the library), but until that's released, you're doing a lot of the groundwork yourself for rendering. You've basically just got c#-friendly handles to the native DirectX functions, but no framework to speak of (something the Toolkit will do and XNA already did for you). Which is why you're writing a framework when you follow those Rastertek tutorials. Edited by BCullis

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Sooker    299
Well, my biggest problem is to understand how to design a game. how to setup classes and how to handle and interact with them.
Where does the CollisionCheck executes and all these game design things

That Is my Game Design for now:

Pong-Ball Class:
[source lang="csharp"]using SharpDX;

namespace PongGame
{
class Ball
{
private Vector2 position { get; set; }
private Vector2 direction { get; set; }

public void Move()
{
// To-Do: Movement
if (!CollisionCheck())
{
direction = CalculateNewDirection();
}
}
private bool CollisionCheck()
{
// To-Do: Collision Check (Collusion Class?)
return false;
}

private Vector2 CalculateNewDirection()
{
// To-Do: Calculate new Direction
return new Vector2();
}

}
}
[/source]

Pong-Bar Class:
[source lang="csharp"]namespace PongGame
{
class Pong
{
private float top { get; set; }
private float bot { get; set; }

public void MoveUp(float distance)
{
this.top -= distance;
}

public void MoveDown(float distance)
{
this.bot += distance;
}
}
}
[/source]

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3Ddreamer    3826
The fact that you are concerned about game engine and game source code boundries shows that you are forward looking. That's good!

Down the road, that will be something to tackle. Right now you just need to sharpen your basic programming skills with some more simple games, 2D now and 3D later. Meanwhile, soak all this experience as you learn terminology, functions, calls, and so forth.


Clinton

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Alpha_ProgDes    6921
[quote name='Sooker' timestamp='1349705110' post='4987997']
I will finish it, thats for sure, but I don´t know about my next step?
[/quote]
Actually I would do Asteroids and/or Breakout* before Pac-Man. But that's just me.

*Arkanoid was Breakout but advanced. Edited by Alpha_ProgDes

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Alpha_ProgDes    6921
[quote name='BCullis' timestamp='1349720015' post='4988065']
The SharpDX Toolkit is coming soon which will behave much more like XNA did (giving a high-level interface to the library),
[/quote]
So now there will be ANX and SharpDX Toolkit? Both XNA replacements. Correct?

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