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Sooker

Is XNA dying and MS forcing to C++?

124 posts in this topic

So obviously I missed the answer to the OP but [url="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh465136.aspx"]according to this[/url]:
[quote]Is your app a game that relies on Microsoft XNA components for graphics rendering? If so, you cannot use XNA with a Windows 8 application. You also cannot effectively use DirectX with managed code; you must develop the DirectX game with C++, unless you use a third party managed API. For more info, see Creating a DirectX game.[/quote]
So the solutions are: SharpDX, ANX, or SharpDX Toolkit. Correct?
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SlimDX aswell.

The preferred tools seem to be SlimDX, SharpDX (very similar) for windows. Monogame for crossplatform (it is higher level than the other 2) and SharpDX toolkit is coming out soon which is like XNA but powered by SharpDX (and actually upto date).

Monogame and SharpDX toolkit are the easier ones to work with it seems.
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I dont know much about anx, here is their site.
[url="http://anxframework.codeplex.com/"]http://anxframework.codeplex.com/[/url]

seems to be up to date too

ANX is build upon SharpDX as you can see here:
http://sharpdx.org/about/related Edited by Sooker
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I have no idea if ANX is upto date but I see no reason to use it over monogame, or vice versa for that matter. Both have similar aims of recreating the XNA experience, ANX is probably slightly closer although Monogame apps are more easily ported back to XNA for 360 and windows phone 7 support and are cross platform. Infact monogame works on just about any platform supporting OpenGL and Mono including:
[list]
[*]Windows XP+ (including windows 8 metro)
[*]Mac
[*]Linux
[*]iOS (monotouch license from xamarin required at $399 per year ontop of the $99 per year apple developers license)
[*]android (monodroid license from xamarin required at $399 per year, note that this is not the same license as monotouch, so to target both android and iOS will be costing you $798 + respective platform licenses, android license is $25 per year for the app store or you can just distribute the APK yourself)
[*]PS Vita (again there is the license applicable to the Vita, I have no idea how much that costs but mono is free on that platform anyway I think so no $399 outlay there)
[/list]
Via porting back to XNA (easy process supposedly, both ways too) you can then target Windows (again), Xbox 360 ($99 XBLIG license applicable), Windows Phone 7 ($99 WP7 dev license applicable).



ANX can only target Windows vista and windows 7, 8 is not officially supported. SharpDX and SharpDX toolkit do support windows 8 officially though.



For lower level APIs then your choice is limited to slimDX or SharpDX. I believe SharpDX is the only one with metro support currently but slimDX is also popular and is being actively devloped so I assume it will officially support metro soon.


If your looking for a striaght up XNA replacement then yeah, either ANX or monogame, both are being actively developed so I assume lack of offical windows 8 support should be fixed soon, it does of course run as a legacy application but not metro.
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I chose SharpDX and got my [url="http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/1936420228/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00"]book[/url] friday. It looks very promising and I love C# so I´m staying with it and use SharpDX.

It is hard to say wich api will have the biggest communtiy or will be the best. They are relativly fresh and Win 8 wasn´t even released.

I hope SharpDX´s community will grow since it´s the best looking api on the market (my opinion)
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Win 8 may not be released officially but the beta and release candidates have been available publically for a long time. Those on the microsoft dreamspark program (how I envy you) also have early access to the full release version as of a few days ago.
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yeah im in the dreamspark program and soon in bizspark too. great job from microsoft for this opportunity
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Oh I envy you so much.........
I may be getting on dreamspark next year though so all is good :D
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why not this year?

You just have to be in any school. anything that is educating and not a job. (see [url="https://www.dreamspark.com/Support/FAQ/Default.aspx"]here[/url] at "are only students from major...")
I´m doing my A-levels at the moment and will be at an university next year. I just had to contact the dreamspark support and they said me what to do to get into the dreamspark program. Edited by Sooker
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I contacted them and they said my college had to be enrolled in the dreamspark program (which my 6th form is not). However next school year I hope to be at uni studying computer science and so far I have 3 mates studying that already at uni and all are enrolled in it. My A-Level computer science teacher in 6th form is trying to persuade the school to enrol in it right now though (apparently cost per student is less than the school already pays per PC for visual studio which is up for renewal in december)
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thats strange, normally dreamspark is for everyone who is at school. just say that you are in a school that isn´t in the program and that you want to register you with the manual registration and what they need to register you. then they will ask for some things and you got your dreamspark account.
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Personally, while it may not be a popular choice, I'd be excited about a transition to C++. At the end of the day, a major reason for the use of C#/Boo/Javascript is ease and speed of development. This is a loss, and there's no denying that. On the flip side, you'd be hard pressed as a game designer to find a way to nullify the potential performance gains from the switch to C++. C++ is at the base of pretty much every engine for a reason. It just works. I also think that once you can write good code in C++, you can write good code in pretty much anything. It gives you a sense of careful, organized code because of the fact that it doesn't offer some of the nice safety nets of the Object Oriented languages, such as automatic garbage collection and immutable operators. When you're forced to work around the "fun" pointers regularly or wonder if you've overloaded ever operator, it creates an attention to the smaller details of a larger system. People seem to give C++ a bad reputation because it's just not as pretty as the other girls. I know that the fake object orientation and Segfaults are a pain, but C++ will always be my main woman when it comes to anything I need to perform well. You could definitely do worse. Just my opinion, though.
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[quote name='Zac' timestamp='1350527464' post='4991310']
C#/Boo/Javascript
[/quote]
ONly time I've ever seen those 3 written together is in reference to unity 3d xD, windows metro is in the works for that apparently.

.NET is still in windows 8, just XNA isn't supported very well by microsoft and doesnt run under metro, only legacy.
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[quote name='Zac' timestamp='1350527464' post='4991310']
I know that the fake object orientation and Segfaults are a pain, but C++ will always be my main woman when it comes to anything I need to perform well.
[/quote]


Yes, indeed... The big woman will cook a great meal for you if you treat her well!

[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]


Clinton
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I was interested in XNA earlier this year since I was at the time teaching myself C#, I even bought the SunBurn game engine and played with it a bit but nothing came out of that experience. I guess I hadn't set my mind on what I really wanted then. But now that I do have a project on paper, I'm thinking of using it to teach myself C++ and DirectX instead.

I have a Bsc in CS and since I'm an old fart, I've learn over the years multiple programming languages, from Basic on my TRS MC-10, 6502 Assembly language on the Atari 800xl and C64, to Pascal and COBOL on Vax and finally C, ADA, VB.net and C# on the PC... I guess I'll be learning C++ next :-)

I'm wondering, is there a third party library or utility for C++ for importing and playing Blender object and animations?

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[quote name='AMenard' timestamp='1350606112' post='4991605']
I'm wondering, is there a third party library or utility for C++ for importing and playing Blender object and animations?
[/quote]

I beleive thats the wrong question. You should be asking how to import from a graphics library. I have spent a year spinning around on where to go with things but in all honesty its just making us all go bald. The simple questions from an indie dev are:-

1. Target platforms.
2. Team development.
3. Prototyping.
4. Skillset of programmers for project.
5. Turnaround.

I even purchased GMS just to play with something thats quick to prototype with in the begining. Every developer has their likes/dislikes but in all honesty if you're game runs on your desired platform to a good standard, it could be coded in whatever!
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No worry... I've just received my books from Amazon today about DirectX and C++. I believe that with those and with the help of Braynzarsoft & Rastertek tutorials I'll be able to get by. Beside, while Blender is a great application, I'm not wed to it. If I can't find a way to import what I create with it into my game, I'll just have to jump ship and try something else. There are plenty of 3D modelling applications after all, albeit some are quite pricey.

But I don't think I'll have to, since both Rastertek & barynzarsoft have an .obj loading tutorial. I would prefer a .md5 exemple, since I could then use the animation storing functionality of that format instead of having a bunch of separated .obj that I'll have to flip in code.
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I have heard that XNA is not going anywhere. In a few months there will be a new XNA for VS 2012, that is what I have been told.
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[quote name='LanceJZ' timestamp='1350802890' post='4992375']
I have heard that XNA is not going anywhere. In a few months there will be a new XNA for VS 2012, that is what I have been told.
[/quote]

if you don't tell us who told you that.. your post is quite useless tbh.
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Microsoft have made no mention of anything on the subject so everything is just heresay. Even the death of XNA is although we can assume that the lack of comments regarding XNA from any microsoft devs shows XNA is being phased out although in this thread we have listed quite a few alternatives.

ANX and monogame being the ones with the closest feel to XNA yet still being actively developed (and arguably better)
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Well, if something new is coming out soon, I hope it is based on SharpDX.

Btw, I heard MSFT is looking for devs in order to create a common compiler for C++ and C#. If this is true, then when the compiler gets done, there would be no real perf diference between the two languages.
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I was recently at a game competition and a Microsoft rep came to visit. Not sure how much she knew about internal developments, but when I spoke of XNA dying she recommended monogame and/or SharpDX.
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