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SuperVGA

Preferred development OS (Desktop/Laptop).


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zedz    291
Nowadays I spend 99+% of my time on Mac

windows, the visual IDEs are the best (though some of the others are pretty close nowadays)
one thing thats not anywhere close is XCode, theres so many thing bad with it to list.

[quote]Finder is complete rubbish[/quote]
yeah I know, I want a decent replacement but theres bugger all.
IOS is a decent OS, OSX is just badly designed & buggy (its slowly improving), the hardware is very nice though

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SuperVGA    1132
Yeah, I agree with the finder bit, although i have a real hard time positioning the cursor very precisely
on a touchpad, and then using 3 fingers to move a window without first moving the cursor.
I guess this is a finder "problem", but I've often thought: what is the resolution of this image?
Clicked the image file and then no useful information shows.

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alh420    5995
[quote name='SuperVGA' timestamp='1348514085' post='4983322']
Everytime i code on a nix machine though, I feel empowered when writing bash scripts. -Is there anything you can't do from within a bash script? [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]

You know you can write bash scripts in OSX too? [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img] (and also windows if you install cygwin)

Personally, I've kind of gotten used to having to use whatever is thrown at me, because of requirements from employer, or platform or whatever.

I run wmware on my macbook pro, so I can run whatever system I need for what I need to do.
Main system is OSX since i mostly do apple development

At home, I run OSX and Windows side by side, and control them both through synergy so they feel like the same computer.
So I have a really hard time answering the question [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img] Edited by Olof Hedman

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zedz    291
[quote]I guess this is a finder "problem", but I've often thought: what is the resolution of this image?
Clicked the image file and then no useful information shows.[/quote]select it and choose 'get info' will show you the image size

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SuperVGA    1132
[quote name='Olof Hedman' timestamp='1348751406' post='4984335']
[quote name='SuperVGA' timestamp='1348514085' post='4983322']
Everytime i code on a nix machine though, I feel empowered when writing bash scripts. -Is there anything you can't do from within a bash script? [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]

You know you can write bash scripts in OSX too? [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img] (and also windows if you install cygwin)

Personally, I've kind of gotten used to having to use whatever is thrown at me, because of requirements from employer, or platform or whatever.

I run wmware on my macbook pro, so I can run whatever system I need for what I need to do.
Main system is OSX since i mostly do apple development

At home, I run OSX and Windows side by side, and control them both through synergy so they feel like the same computer.
So I have a really hard time answering the question [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]
[/quote]

Sure. -That counts for a unix machine as well, so I never meant to exclude OSX.
You must be more comfortable in developing on one OS than another, -even though they run on the same machine... Just pick one! :D
But it's nice to see that successful OS fusion setups exist. I rarely do it for very long before being annoyed with one of them.

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alh420    5995
[quote name='SuperVGA' timestamp='1348817708' post='4984647']
You must be more comfortable in developing on one OS than another, -even though they run on the same machine... Just pick one! [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]
But it's nice to see that successful OS fusion setups exist. I rarely do it for very long before being annoyed with one of them.
[/quote]

Right now I'm more comfortable in osx and ios, but thats just because I do it daily and know where all the tools and docs are, and all the shortcuts are programmed into my nervous system.
I don't doubt I would be equally comfortable in any other os pretty soon.
The OS isn't really that important to me, the important part is the available tools for what I want to do.
And my point is no OS wins there in general :)

Oh, and I also instantly fell in love with the mac track pad and have a really hard time using any competitor since.
Though on a few new pc:s I've tried, they begin to approach.
At least they are starting to get the friction coefficient right

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SuperVGA    1132
[quote name='Olof Hedman' timestamp='1348828675' post='4984679']
[quote name='SuperVGA' timestamp='1348817708' post='4984647']
You must be more comfortable in developing on one OS than another, -even though they run on the same machine... Just pick one! [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img]
But it's nice to see that successful OS fusion setups exist. I rarely do it for very long before being annoyed with one of them.
[/quote]

Right now I'm more comfortable in osx and ios, but thats just because I do it daily and know where all the tools and docs are, and all the shortcuts are programmed into my nervous system.
I don't doubt I would be equally comfortable in any other os pretty soon.
The OS isn't really that important to me, the important part is the available tools for what I want to do.
And my point is no OS wins there in general :)

Oh, and I also instantly fell in love with the mac track pad and have a really hard time using any competitor since.
Though on a few new pc:s I've tried, they begin to approach.
At least they are starting to get the friction coefficient right
[/quote]

Yeah the mac touchpads are great, but I never substitute the mouse unless i really
Have to code on the go. I think having the right tools available is essential.
But I was thinking about the file manager and other built-in tools that you use
when developing.

You mention being "comfortable in osx and ios" -are you actually developing inside ios or did you mean "for" it?
I develop for ios, droid and cross platform pc everyday, in windows and in osx,
and although i love compiled languages as obj-c, I really dislike the intended syntax.
Too many preprocessor definitions in my opinion, and using brackets (a single character should here be 3) and that sort of fuction prototypes
is rather of cumbersome. Also I have a hard time getting used to private
functions that are not declared in the header...

But other than that, sure, ios is kinda cool.

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swiftcoder    18432
[quote name='SuperVGA' timestamp='1348853417' post='4984784']
Also I have a hard time getting used to private functions that are not declared in the header...[/quote]
To my mind, this is one of the areas where Objective-C blows every other object-oriented language out of the water.

Private methods are not part of the class' interface contract - they should not be declared in a location visible to the customer. I only wish they had done the same for private member variables...

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alh420    5995
[quote name='swiftcoder' timestamp='1348853868' post='4984787']
[quote name='SuperVGA' timestamp='1348853417' post='4984784']
Also I have a hard time getting used to private functions that are not declared in the header...[/quote]
To my mind, this is one of the areas where Objective-C blows every other object-oriented language out of the water.

Private methods are not part of the class' interface contract - they should not be declared in a location visible to the customer. I only wish they had done the same for private member variables...
[/quote]

I agree with this...
obj-c has a few good points, and this is one of them imo.

Mostly I program in C++ though, but I can do obj-c too, and have developed for both osx and ios.
I didn't mean I programmed IN iOS, but I like the tools that are available. The OpenGL debugger is really nice for example.
Wish there was better support for shader development though...
Its wonderful to work with standardized hardware.

I've also been using eclipse for android development, and I despise it [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
It's part eclipse fault for being slow, eat too much ram, trying to be too smart and generally being a nuisance.
And part android sdk for being buggy, and have bad support for multiple projects with interdependencies.
Using the ndk didn't help the experience, though I've heard it is supposed to work better now, though I'm still suspicious until I see it under the pressure of a real project...

As for file managing, I have been using TotalFinder to group finder windows and bring them up on a keystroke, though it has been kind of buggy when using two screens lately.

And I like that I have a bash shell available, and its usually easy to install gnu stuff if you need it.

I use the trackpad (and built in keyboard) all the time, even when connected to a bigger screen at the office, I find it a lot more ergonomic then using a mouse, even though its a bit slower. Also, using that all the time makes the transition easier for when I'm out of office. I long for the day when accurate eyetracking is built into every laptop...

At home I have a hobby project I just started, and for that I downloaded Visual Studio Express 2012, since it was a long time since I had an opportunity to use VS professionally. (and it needs to run on windows)
I have no idea if I like it yet, most things seem to work similar to as I'm used to, just a bit more flat and edgy [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img] Edited by Olof Hedman

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SuperVGA    1132
[quote name='swiftcoder' timestamp='1348853868' post='4984787']
[quote name='SuperVGA' timestamp='1348853417' post='4984784']
Also I have a hard time getting used to private functions that are not declared in the header...[/quote]
To my mind, this is one of the areas where Objective-C blows every other object-oriented language out of the water.

Private methods are not part of the class' interface contract - they should not be declared in a location visible to the customer. I only wish they had done the same for private member variables...
[/quote]
Maybe they aren't, but it makes good sense to predeclare them somewhere.
If for nothing else, then at least for the class to use functions implemented further down.
In my opinion, this clutters up my implementation file in objc.

It's not just that the header file is the interface contact, it's also that it serves as
an overview of the class for the programmer. I don't know if it's a neXt or an objc thing,
But maybe it wasn't that clever to call the header file the interface of the class.

Maybe it's up to the developer to decide how/if the class "interfaces" to the surrounding world.
But maybe arbitary declaration points is seen as an advantage. -It just doesn't say proper code organization to me.

Obj c does in no way imply developer comfort. -And it certainly doesn't blow c++ out of the water IMO...

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swiftcoder    18432
[quote name='SuperVGA' timestamp='1348933194' post='4985086']
It's not just that the header file is the interface contact, it's also that it serves as an overview of the class for the programmer.[/quote]
The purpose of a header file is to convey the necessary information (and only the necessary information) to the [b]clients[/b] of a class. Any time that private/protected functions or data become visible to clients, it becomes impossible to cleanly modify the implementation without impacting those clients.

In C++, changing the definition of a private function/data member in the header file will not only force the recompilation of every dependent source file, but if part of a shared library it will break binary compatibility as well (forcing all users of the library to recompile/relink their code). This is one of the key flaws in the C++ compilation model, which makes maintaining large-scale C++ software a nightmare, and gives rise to such workarounds as the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opaque_pointer#C.2B.2B"]PIMPL idiom[/url] (which just recreates the Objective-C feature you are complaining about).

[quote]Obj c does in no way imply developer comfort. -And it certainly doesn't blow c++ out of the water IMO...[/quote]
To my mind, Objective-C is one of the most interesting object-oriented programming languages in current use. Not only have they managed to implement a highly-performant modula3-style dynamic object/messaging system, but they have managed to tie it into C/C++ as necessary to allow the use of both legacy software and low-level performance tricks.

That's not to say that I want to write all my code in Objective-C, but I strongly advise that you study its strengths (and the weaknesses of C++) in [b]detail[/b], before you make sweeping generalisations as to their relative worth.

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BentmGamer    88
I, myself am an artist, and I prefer OS X for development, ad the tools just seem to integrate much better, and the os is slick and sexy. (I do not pwn a mac, but have used them for development. I obviously dont have that money, I'm 13) and linux Ubuntu would be my second place.

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Heath    357
I always fall back on Linux, particularly when I don't want to pay for Windows again. Development environment? Git, python, terminal, and a text editor. I don't much care what text editor, but I've been using Gnome's editor lately. I'm able to read my github code on my tablet (and I could even test it if I installed the relevant apps) when I'm away from my desktop or netbook... which I suppose makes me a bit overly connected.

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swiftcoder    18432
[quote name='slicer4ever' timestamp='1348997827' post='4985303']
umm....how often do u buy windows?[/quote]
Once per machine, if you are doing things the legal way. You are also implicitly buying Windows every time you buy a PC.

I have quite a number of Windows licenses lying around. Boxed set of Windows 3.1, anyone?

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Heath    357
[quote name='slicer4ever' timestamp='1348997827' post='4985303']
[quote name='Heath' timestamp='1348959332' post='4985179']
I always fall back on Linux, particularly when I don't want to pay for Windows again.
[/quote]

umm....how often do u buy windows?
[/quote]My desktop had Vista at first, and I had the choice to buy an upgrade to Windows 7, or to continue with Vista. I installed Ubuntu instead.

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SuperVGA    1132
[quote name='swiftcoder' timestamp='1348938607' post='4985104']
[quote name='SuperVGA' timestamp='1348933194' post='4985086']
It's not just that the header file is the interface contact, it's also that it serves as an overview of the class for the programmer.[/quote]
The purpose of a header file is to convey the necessary information (and only the necessary information) to the [b]clients[/b] of a class. Any time that private/protected functions or data become visible to clients, it becomes impossible to cleanly modify the implementation without impacting those clients.
[/quote]
No. Not necessarily. (In ObjC perhaps, and to each, theirs.) -They're originally meant just to hold the declarations to be shared between source files using those declarations.
When a declaration is moved from a header file into an implementation file, this purpose is ignored.
I understand that a language can use headers as a description of the class interface, and that's cool with me, I just personally don't like that,
as I like using headers as an overview of the class (or any other code module with a header)

[quote name='swiftcoder' timestamp='1348938607' post='4985104']
In C++, changing the definition of a private function/data member in the header file will not only force the recompilation of every dependent source file, but if part of a shared library it will break binary compatibility as well (forcing all users of the library to recompile/relink their code). This is one of the key flaws in the C++ compilation model, which makes maintaining large-scale C++ software a nightmare, and gives rise to such workarounds as the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opaque_pointer#C.2B.2B"]PIMPL idiom[/url] (which just recreates the Objective-C feature you are complaining about).
[/quote]
Yes, sure. -I understand that. I like avoiding that sort of stuff, and I don't advocate the use of dynamic linked libraries, if that's what you mean by breaking the binary compatibility.
But I don't mind compiling more when we're talking large scale projects, and I would still prefer descriptive headers to less recompilation.
I really think you're overstating a little, by saying it's a nightmare. If you're maintaining a large scale piece of software, there are usually plenty of nightmares even without the
language-specific stuff.

[quote name='swiftcoder' timestamp='1348938607' post='4985104']
[quote]Obj c does in no way imply developer comfort. -And it certainly doesn't blow c++ out of the water IMO...[/quote]
To my mind, Objective-C is one of the most interesting object-oriented programming languages in current use. Not only have they managed to implement a highly-performant modula3-style dynamic object/messaging system, but they have managed to tie it into C/C++ as necessary to allow the use of both legacy software and low-level performance tricks.

That's not to say that I want to write all my code in Objective-C, but I strongly advise that you study its strengths (and the weaknesses of C++) in [b]detail[/b], before you make sweeping generalisations as to their relative worth.
[/quote]
I like the messaging system too, and I'm growing more and more fond of the named variables in the function prototype day by day.
It's nice of you to advice me, mr. Swift. I won't blindly pick a language over another without knowing what I'm trying to solve, either.
I've been writing C++ for four years now and I only have a year of ObjC experience. I came off as a little aggressive and I apologize if i stepped on any toes.
Languages are different, and many have conventions to build better code by means different than other languages, and I can really respect that.

As for the sweeping "generalization"; I explained earlier that that's what I was going for with this thread (general personal preference). I still stand by my opinion, but I learn everyday,
and I might learn to appreciate the peculiar ObjC header files too. So far, I just feel more comfortable with C++ with Netbeans C++ or even gEdit, Notepad++ and Gcc.

This was meant as a general platform thread too, so perhaps it was silly of me to start "complaining" about a language. Really, all I wrote about ObjC was
[quote name='SuperVGA' ]
Too many preprocessor definitions in my opinion, and using brackets (a single character should here be 3) and that sort of function prototypes
is rather of cumbersome. Also I have a hard time getting used to private functions that are not declared in the header...
[/quote]
And you responded with:
[quote name='swiftcoder']
To my mind, this is one of the areas where Objective-C blows every other object-oriented language out of the water.
[/quote]
-So if anyone of us made a sweep at anything, it was you, and a big sweep, too. Edited by SuperVGA

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MJP    19754
I use Visual Studio a lot, but I'm fine with Notepad++ with a tags plugin and a command line build system. Although if I have to work with the command line I prefer Console2...it's nice being able to copy and paste with ctrl-c/ctrl-v. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]

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alh420    5995
What is wrong with this thread?
It keeps popping up as having new messages in my watched list, but there never is a new message.
except the one from MJP yesterday, but it has been popping up every day for over a week now.

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Bacterius    13165
[quote name='Olof Hedman' timestamp='1349773542' post='4988265']
What is wrong with this thread?
It keeps popping up as having new messages in my watched list, but there never is a new message.
except the one from MJP yesterday, but it has been popping up every day for over a week now.
[/quote]
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/624755-new-unread-post-triggered-by-poll-votes/

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I work on my Mac (running Lion) and play on my Windows PC (currently waiting to be rebuilt after a move). But then, I work with JavaScript and HTML5 which allows plenty of flexibility in terms of what OS one prefers. I just prefer using OS X for most activities. Because the development environment isn't really hardware intensive I can work comfortably on a MacBook Air and carry it everywhere with me, working in coffee shops, parks, etc if I feel like it.

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SuperVGA    1132
[quote name='Drakonka' timestamp='1349959260' post='4989078']
I work on my Mac (running Lion) and play on my Windows PC (currently waiting to be rebuilt after a move). But then, I work with JavaScript and HTML5 which allows plenty of flexibility in terms of what OS one prefers. I just prefer using OS X for most activities. Because the development environment isn't really hardware intensive I can work comfortably on a MacBook Air and carry it everywhere with me, working in coffee shops, parks, etc if I feel like it.
[/quote]
Well safari is pretty sweet, and there are a lot of nice editors to write html and js in,
so i can understand you. For the web and creative stuff a macbook is ok for me too.

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ic0de    1012
I break out DOS and Turbo C++ every once in a while but mostly I use Visual Studio because it looks and functions beautifully. On Linux I use Code::Blocks and Debian because it works a bit like VS. Edited by ic0de

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