Yeah, I'd also recommend a bachelor's CS degree as well, a Master's might be overkill, but I've never seen anyone rejected for a job for having one (I work with tons of engineers with CS or software eng degrees, a few have masters degrees, the odd person has no post-secondary education, and a couple even have PhDs).
While you don't need a degree to work in the industry, chances are if you were good enough to get in without one, you wouldn't have to ask about whether you need one or not.
If you do choose the post-secondary education route, it's worth noting that you only get out what you put in to your education, and you will have to supplement your learning outside of your courses, especially if your main interest is games.
If you want to work for a major developer, learn C++, and learn how to make games. If any particular area of games piques your interest in particular (i.e. rendering, animation, AI), etc., learn about it.
Choose your electives based on your interest. While most universities don't focus on these areas in undergraduate programs, there are usually select courses on AI, graphics, which may be more academic than practical, but understanding these things are important.
Want to program for big developer. what should i be learning?
Major strategy failure. Neither a Bachelor’s nor Master’s degree will help you in the least, and can in fact hurt you.
I'm sorry, but this is just plain lies. The OP wants to know how to get into a big developer studio. Most (all?) big developer studios hire HR to weed out recruits and HR ticks of at Bachelor education minimum. I would personally skip the master's though, like you explained - it's a waste of time for what the OP wants.
Major strategy failure. Neither a Bachelor’s nor Master’s degree will help you in the least, and can in fact hurt you.
Don't listen to this!!! I don't know where L. Spiro is from, and maybe this tip is good for his/her isolated place on earth, but I know for sure that here in Montréal, where the gaming industry is big, they will never hire a programmer without a Bachelor degree. He's right for the master's degree though.
L. Spiro is from…Earth. If you want useful advice and you also come from Earth, listen up.
My friend DragonRift also comes from Earth, and in fact he comes from Canada’s Montreal.
And he can testify that without a degree he was able to get a game-making job there.
It is utterly stupid to say that any city on Earth will not hire someone under such-and-such conditions.
It’s an entire city.
At most only a few companies hire Bachelor’s-only recruits.
The other 99% hire only non-Bachelor’s candidates, and the rest just don’t care as long as you can perform.
This is the universal truth, regardless of what a few friends told you.
Even if you did get a job with a high salary due to your Master’s, the only result is that you alienate yourself from your peers. And yes those people 10 years younger than you are your peers, and most of them are also more skilled than you.
Hence the alienation.
You aren’t doing anyone a favor by getting a Bachelor’s or a Master’s.
L. Spiro
My friend DragonRift also comes from Earth, and in fact he comes from Canada’s Montreal.
And he can testify that without a degree he was able to get a game-making job there.
It is utterly stupid to say that any city on Earth will not hire someone under such-and-such conditions.
It’s an entire city.
At most only a few companies hire Bachelor’s-only recruits.
The other 99% hire only non-Bachelor’s candidates, and the rest just don’t care as long as you can perform.
This is the universal truth, regardless of what a few friends told you.
Even if you did get a job with a high salary due to your Master’s, the only result is that you alienate yourself from your peers. And yes those people 10 years younger than you are your peers, and most of them are also more skilled than you.
Hence the alienation.
You aren’t doing anyone a favor by getting a Bachelor’s or a Master’s.
L. Spiro
Ok, let me clarify. He was talking about "big developer", I assumed that means major publishers, like for example, Ubisoft, Eidos, Warner or EA (all in Montréal). You are right that you may be able to get a programmer job without a bachelor's, but it's really exceptional and you need a lot of experience. In 10 years, I've only worked with one guy without a bachelor's. I can assure you that in all these companies, in Montréal, at least 95% of all programmers have a bachelor's. It's also always asked for in job descriptions.
Without a bachelor's, you can probably get a job in a smaller mobile game studio, but even there, they usually ask for it.
Without a bachelor's, you can probably get a job in a smaller mobile game studio, but even there, they usually ask for it.
What L. Spiro tried to say is that if you spent 4+ years working and completing good projects, you will probably end up with a good portfolio that will make your resume' visible as well.
However I don't agree that a Bachelor degree is a waste of time because of that.
In college I acquired discipline to study and work hard in areas I didn't have any interest and that gave me great knowledge and experience to deal with problems.
In college I got to really work in groups and deal with different kind of people every day (this is a must).
I also acquired many, many contacts (networking is a must).
But note this: I had all this wonderful experience because I wanted to. The university doesn't deliver alone all this knowledge/experience to you. You have to work hard, to join groups, to organize and attend different events and have to make those 4+ years of your live fit in more than one line of your resume.
I have applied for a position at Microsoft (US) recently and in their model of resume they had:
- One line for you degree
- One line for your GPA
- A section for your Major School Projects
- A section for your Awards and Leadership
Those two sections will be filled pretty easily with your 4+ years of college experience.
A second note:
At Valve, for example, many job positions (e.g. Software Engineer, System Engineer) have a requirement "Bachelor's degree in computer science, information technology or equivalent" or "Bachelor's degree in computer engineering or applied mathematics (or equivalent)".
Positions like Web Designer and Level Designer do not require a BS.
Conclusion: you have to know what kinda of work you want in the job industry. If you want a artistic/designer role, maybe a BS in Computer Science is not the best option. But if you want to work in the systems and core engineering of companies/studios like Microsoft and Valve a BS may be a requirement
However I don't agree that a Bachelor degree is a waste of time because of that.
In college I acquired discipline to study and work hard in areas I didn't have any interest and that gave me great knowledge and experience to deal with problems.
In college I got to really work in groups and deal with different kind of people every day (this is a must).
I also acquired many, many contacts (networking is a must).
But note this: I had all this wonderful experience because I wanted to. The university doesn't deliver alone all this knowledge/experience to you. You have to work hard, to join groups, to organize and attend different events and have to make those 4+ years of your live fit in more than one line of your resume.
I have applied for a position at Microsoft (US) recently and in their model of resume they had:
- One line for you degree
- One line for your GPA
- A section for your Major School Projects
- A section for your Awards and Leadership
Those two sections will be filled pretty easily with your 4+ years of college experience.
A second note:
At Valve, for example, many job positions (e.g. Software Engineer, System Engineer) have a requirement "Bachelor's degree in computer science, information technology or equivalent" or "Bachelor's degree in computer engineering or applied mathematics (or equivalent)".
Positions like Web Designer and Level Designer do not require a BS.
Conclusion: you have to know what kinda of work you want in the job industry. If you want a artistic/designer role, maybe a BS in Computer Science is not the best option. But if you want to work in the systems and core engineering of companies/studios like Microsoft and Valve a BS may be a requirement
Usually the things L. says is gold, but her advice against degrees is iron pyrite. L., just because you and some people you know have managed to get jobs without degrees doesn't mean that's the way everybody should go. You are exceptions, not the rule. There are other things you did that trumped your lack of degree and got you hired. Once hired, the resume includes experience, which trumps degree. The trick for most people is getting hired in the first place, and not having a degree makes that problematic for most people.
The key is that you are not competing in a vacuum.
When there are 50 entry-level applicants to chose from, a degree is one quick and easy filter.
From talking with friends in HR, there are some great stories about non-degree people who are frankly delusional about their prospects of getting a job as a programmer. (Of course maybe their creativity could be applied to a designer position...) At the three major companies I've worked with, lack of a degree is an automatic barrier through HR at the entry level.
A CS degree is the minimum bar to breaking in. There are very rare exceptions to the rule; but that is because they must be exceptional in some other way, either through demonstrated experience, or through the right social connections, or through sheer dumb luck.
When there are 50 entry-level applicants to chose from, a degree is one quick and easy filter.
From talking with friends in HR, there are some great stories about non-degree people who are frankly delusional about their prospects of getting a job as a programmer. (Of course maybe their creativity could be applied to a designer position...) At the three major companies I've worked with, lack of a degree is an automatic barrier through HR at the entry level.
A CS degree is the minimum bar to breaking in. There are very rare exceptions to the rule; but that is because they must be exceptional in some other way, either through demonstrated experience, or through the right social connections, or through sheer dumb luck.
Usually the things L. says is gold, but her advice against degrees is iron pyrite. L., just because you and some people you know have managed to get jobs without degrees doesn't mean that's the way everybody should go.
I have nothing but personal experience to back myself up, but that experience has recurred many times. I already mentioned 3 experiences with people who pursued education over practice and the results were obvious.
So why do I advise against degrees?
Part of it is due to my own lack there-of. I didn’t need one, so why should anyone else?
The other part is because I have had to interview people and I usually pass those with degrees. And then they usually request too much and the CEO’s don’t accept. The CEO of my first job said the same thing.
There is always some chance anywhere at getting a job.
My personal experiences don’t always represent the norm., but I feel they might represent the majority and you should pay attention.
L. Spiro
her
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think "she" is a he. The avatar is one of his drawings I think.
On topic: I don't have a degree (studying isn't my thing), but I've met my current boss at the university (he got his degree), but he knew about my skills so he urgently wanted to hire me, so I wouldn't say it was a waste of time
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