Hi.
Just some quick things that I'm pondering over that I would be happy to get some feedback / thoughts on.
What do you think about having in-game conditions that directly affect the player rather then the players character to increase the skillcap in a PvP or PvE enviroment? (Im thinking from a MMORPG perspective, but that's just my POI)
For example there would be spells that would cause:
Rearrangment of skills on hotbar for a small period of time,
Inversing controls (move left by pressing right)for a small period of time,
Add a small delay to input ations (user hit key, takes 0.2 sec for action to ocour) for a small period of time,
Instead of spells that would cause:
Slow on character for small period of time,
Blindness for small period of time,
DOT..
Ofcourse, messing with controls is not something that you would generally want to do as it makes the player feel less in power and 'cheated on' by the system, but with balance, could this be something of use to increase the skillcap and add actual physical (reaction) and mental (observation, tactic) aspects to a challanging enviroment?
Thanks for your input. / AS
Affecting the actual player as an alternative to affecting the playable character
I think I have seen these in some games (cannot remember exactly which ones) and liked them. Such things only have to be rare enough to not cause much frustration.
Delaying controls sounds ok, but it should only be some limited controls like WASD. But it might be annoying if you already have lag due to high ping...
Inversing controls might feel annoying. But maybe a high accuracy reduction in mouse aim and walk direction (so you dont have to spend 5 seconds realizing controls are inverse) so if you walk forward, the character instead walks somewhere diagonally and then changes direction a bit like he was drunk or something.
The other ones seem to need to be implemented client side and as such will be cheatable...
Inversing controls might feel annoying. But maybe a high accuracy reduction in mouse aim and walk direction (so you dont have to spend 5 seconds realizing controls are inverse) so if you walk forward, the character instead walks somewhere diagonally and then changes direction a bit like he was drunk or something.
The other ones seem to need to be implemented client side and as such will be cheatable...
Author
Hey guys, Thanks for your input.
Lauris - I haven't come across this kind of behaviour in a game yet, except inversed controls caused by a monster in a game called 9dragons.
It was actually not to bad, but it was only one low level mob and I'm more interested in the PvP aspect.
Waterlimon - WASD was exactly what i was thinking too.. Maybe mouse scroll speed for slower panning/turning. I guess balance is the keyword.
Hmm maybe something like that would be exploitable if implemented on the client, but shouldn't it be achivable by just remapping keys to actions on the fly on the server/domain side?
Lauris - I haven't come across this kind of behaviour in a game yet, except inversed controls caused by a monster in a game called 9dragons.
It was actually not to bad, but it was only one low level mob and I'm more interested in the PvP aspect.
Waterlimon - WASD was exactly what i was thinking too.. Maybe mouse scroll speed for slower panning/turning. I guess balance is the keyword.
Hmm maybe something like that would be exploitable if implemented on the client, but shouldn't it be achivable by just remapping keys to actions on the fly on the server/domain side?
A handful of games have gone further than that.
In some of the Metal Gear Solid series, it would take controls away from the player, play a fake game over screen, or even talk directly at the player, telling them they have played for too long and should just shut it off.
Even some older PC games would do fake "Blue Screen of Death" screens, error windows, or pretend to reset the computer in order to manipulate the player directly.
If done properly (read not too often) then these kinds of 4th wall breaking aspects can really add to a game. It will be frustration though, so game-play needs to be good enough to tough through the abuse.
In some of the Metal Gear Solid series, it would take controls away from the player, play a fake game over screen, or even talk directly at the player, telling them they have played for too long and should just shut it off.
Even some older PC games would do fake "Blue Screen of Death" screens, error windows, or pretend to reset the computer in order to manipulate the player directly.
If done properly (read not too often) then these kinds of 4th wall breaking aspects can really add to a game. It will be frustration though, so game-play needs to be good enough to tough through the abuse.
Hey guys, Thanks for your input.
Lauris - I haven't come across this kind of behaviour in a game yet, except inversed controls caused by a monster in a game called 9dragons.
It was actually not to bad, but it was only one low level mob and I'm more interested in the PvP aspect.
Waterlimon - WASD was exactly what i was thinking too.. Maybe mouse scroll speed for slower panning/turning. I guess balance is the keyword.
Hmm maybe something like that would be exploitable if implemented on the client, but shouldn't it be achivable by just remapping keys to actions on the fly on the server/domain side?
Yeah, i was thinking that the control remapping/accuracy reduction would be done on the server...
But i guess it doesnt make that much sense to try to prevent cheating that much, you would still want the client to know about the remapping and all to make accurate client side prediction
You mentioned, and dismissed, "Blindness for small period of time."
I think blindness (make the screen go entirely black, just darken, or toss a blob of "tar" up on the screen) is probably the best example of this kind of "real player hinderance", it's just been done alot. Control inverting and slow motion is also commonly done, but still falls into this category properly.
Other possibilities:
Whatever you do, you'll need to have alot of them (at least 20) with variances in potency and exact effect, otherwise players would rapidly adapt to each one.
[size=2]When reading the title of this thread, the first tongue-in-cheek thought that came into my mind is: "We could break the leg of the real player instead of the avatar."
I think blindness (make the screen go entirely black, just darken, or toss a blob of "tar" up on the screen) is probably the best example of this kind of "real player hinderance", it's just been done alot. Control inverting and slow motion is also commonly done, but still falls into this category properly.
Other possibilities:
- Delay the player's video feedback by 0.5 seconds, maybe with a slight blur. So the speed runs the same, but it's just 0.5 seconds out of sync (Might make some players dizzy).
- Vibrate the player's screen (might cause dizziness). Or slowly rotate the screen -15 to 15 degrees, "rocking" the viewpoint back and forth, with a sea-sickness-like effect. It'd definitely decrease my accuracy.
- Make enemy characters more "washed out" and blended with the environment (especially their edges), so it's harder to visually see them. Alternatively, Fade the screen from full-color to greyscale (with slight blur to final greyscale), making it harder to spot enemy characters.
- If you have a damage indicator (red flashes on edges of the screen), add fake damage indicators (or misdirect the real damage indicators) making the character think they are taking damage from a different direction.
- Swap enemy and ally appearances, so you shoot your friends and not your enemies. (Old-school RPG "confusion")
- Make all enemies and allies look alike, so you don't know who to shoot and have to guess.
- Make all enemies and allies look like monsters, (and add random danger indicators to freak you out thinking you got hurt) so you shoot everything.
- Make your health bar look extremely low (perhaps after a huge fake danger indicator flash), so you run for cover and get out of danger. ("Flee" magic)
- Make your health bar appear to be full or near full, so you think you have more health then you really do. (Perhaps might annoy users - "What the?! How did I die?")
- Swap your health bar with the mana bar, so you think your current mana level is your health, and you think your current health level is your mana.
- Instead of blackening the entire screen, dim the lighting of the lights in the game (whether the sun or artificial lights), so you can still see the 3D world, but everything is dim.
- Add swirling colorful lights over your eyes, disorienting you and distracting you from your enemies.
- Make all non-geometry objects have extreme horizontal motion blur that lasts 1 second and comes and goes every 4 seconds. All your allies, enemies, trees, etc... blur and then snap back into focus, while the rest of the terrain isn't blurred, taking you a few moments to re-adjust.
- Distort the screen with a different degree of field of vision.
Whatever you do, you'll need to have alot of them (at least 20) with variances in potency and exact effect, otherwise players would rapidly adapt to each one.
[size=2]When reading the title of this thread, the first tongue-in-cheek thought that came into my mind is: "We could break the leg of the real player instead of the avatar."
Rearrangment of skills on hotbar for a small period of time
Absolutely not. Nothing worse than disturbing immersion, in my book. Though there may be a way to utilize this without disturbing immersion depending on the specific system, I suppose.
Inversing controls (move left by pressing right)for a small period of time
This one I like a lot. Secret of Mana had confusion spells that would reverse your directional control when hit by them. At first it was crippling, but you could adapt and navigate just fine during that period after you were hit by the spell a few times. I like this idea because it doesn't ruin immersion, but it forces the player to adapt to small shifts in the game. Expands the mind.
Generally I think it's a great idea. If you make it part of the gameplay then the player shouldn't feel cheated; it's just another obstacle/challenge the player must overcome to excell at the game.
Iron Realm games have an effect call Aeon which delays actions by .5 seconds. Very useful since it allows for some interesting combinations.
Another effect is swapping the text of one ability with something else.
Giving the player false knowledge. Particularly deadly as you could confuse the AI someone was running to help with the game.
Another effect is swapping the text of one ability with something else.
Giving the player false knowledge. Particularly deadly as you could confuse the AI someone was running to help with the game.
There was a game called Eternal Darkness that had an element like this. It was a Lovecraft-inspired horror game, and when the character lost too much sanity it would start to do some very creative things, like flashing the "Connection with Controller Lost" screen, or sinking the PC into the floor as if the game was glitched.
These were great moments because they were unexpected. Thus, I think it would be great to include these sort of effects as "randoms" which might take place more rarely than the normal effects.
These were great moments because they were unexpected. Thus, I think it would be great to include these sort of effects as "randoms" which might take place more rarely than the normal effects.
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