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Exodus111

Sorry if this is a stupid question. What would it take to get DirectX on Linux?

25 posts in this topic

Again sorry if this question is inane.

But I'm a gamer, the only reason I run Windows is because I have to to play Games on it.
If I could run windows games directly on a Linux OS, id go Ubuntu in a heartbeat.

The reason is ofc resources, Ive got a kickass computer, but I also play top of the line games at maximum settings, Id love to not have to run the massive Windows OS as well as the game I'm playing.

Which is why Wine, or any other form of box simulation makes no sense, I certainly don't want to run a Linux Os, an OS emulator, and a massive Windows OS under the game I'm playing.

So whats the deal? Why cant DirectX be made for Linux? I get that its illegal, but when has that stopped the open source community?

I take the Question to this forum to ask the experts, is there a technical reason why DirectX can NEVER be applied to another OS?
Is it simple impossible?

-Exo
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Why cant DirectX be made for Linux?
That's because of Microsoft. Anyways, there are so many games out there that are still written in OpenGL. Even the final version of Steam will soon head to Linux :)
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Wine being as fast as Windows, would still mean id have to run windows, as well as running Ubuntu AND my game.
So while playing that is still one OS too many.

Everyone thought OpenGL would crush DirectX due to its open source nature, but ppl fail to realize the importance of the gaming community as a way to maintain OS monopoly, Microsoft didnt. Consider Games for Windows, this was way before Microsoft made any game, it was merely a marketing incentive for developers to keep making Windows games.

So am I to understand that the reason here is the legality, its proprietary software, Microsoft will sue, therefore its not done?
Is that It?
Or is there a more technical reason why its has not even been attempted since Windows 95?

-Exo
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[quote name='mhagain' timestamp='1351740515' post='4996062']
it would also require contributions from the hardware vendors to provide a driver.
[/quote]

Couldn't it instead point to an OpenGL driver... no wait I see the issue with that...

Ok thanks a lot mr. mhagain, and the rest of u for not laughing in my face but providing me with an honest straight forward answer to this.
[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]

-Exo
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The stuff that goes on between a D3D11 app and the GPU is actually pretty complicated. There's the D3D runtime provided by Microsoft, the user-mode and kernel-mode components of the driver, and a complex display driver model that forms the backbone of DXGI and D3D11. You'd have to somehow replace all of that if you wanted a D3D11 app to run on Linux, which is a monumental task if you're not doing it with the help of the hardware vendors. Intercepting D3D calls and translating them into OpenGL is a lot easier, but less efficient. But even then it's not always a simple mapping between the two API's.
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Wine will run DirectX9. I don't think it goes any higher than that. And I'm not sure about hardware acceleration.
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If you're targeting Linux I'd really recommend just porting to OpenGL. If you want portability then you gotta make sure your code is structured in a way that's portable. Abstract your rendering, input, audio, etc from your game.

I know it's a matter of opinion but I like OpenGL a lot more than DirectX. That being said I usually end up using DirectX anyway because I'm hoping to get a job making games targeting the Windows platform.

le sigh...
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With more desktop users of Unix and mobiles DirectX will lose ground to OpenGL.

@ 3DModelerMan: Sure it does accel. 3D. I run perfectly Rage on Wine/Ubuntu.-
@ xoofx: Interesting, I didn't know about that.
@ SimonForsman: The fastest desktop is currently Gnome classic without effects. In my test it even outperforms a terminal desktop that hardly uses any resources at all. And yes it's also faster than Windows 8, I get around +6FPS in X-Plane with a GTX 460. So you suggest Gentoo? Never used but heard that it compiles apps at install? Edited by abcdef44
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I'm not sure that I like the idea of a 3D API being co-opted in an OS war here. Truth is that is if > 90% of a target market are on the same platform then you don't actually need an open standards API at all; you can use something quite proprietary and still get a result. That's real freedom - freedom to choose what works best for your project and what actually helps you to get stuff done without being constrained by artificial limitations such as "will it be portable?"

I likewise don't believe that desktop Unix is ever going to happen. There's an awful habit of infighting that is deeply embedded in Unix culture, has bubbled over into open source communities (which seem to have become more about Unix than they are about open source) and results in a splintered, fragmented set of platforms, multiple forks, multiple different and incompatible ways of accomplishing the same end result, each striving towards their own particular vision of technical perfection (it's an interesting exercise to compare that with the evolution of GL extensions). That's not conducive to widespread uptake; you spend more time trying to nail down a moving target than you spend actually getting productive work done. It's ironic, and particularly telling, that the major success of Unix uptake (outside of specialist/server areas) has been in a locked-down environment where you get what you're given and have to learn to be happy with it. Edited by mhagain
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I've read a trustful statistics for Switzerland in a newspaper ~1-2 years ago which showed MS market share to have dropped to ~78%. If I remeber correctly this was only
for desktop and servers, not even including mobiles.
The're are also some online sites stating that Linux has a share of ~1%, hahaha now this must be outdated by ~10 years at least.
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M$ is losing popularity but I doubt it will be Linux that takes the place of Windows if M$ goes under. I love the GNU community to death, but it's a sandbox. End users want completed products. If M$ gives up the desktop OS struggle their place will be taken by some other company that stands on he shoulders of giants (steals GNU work) and charges enormous sums of cash for defective and/or corporate-interest driven products.

Oops, did I talk bad about someone? Edited by Khatharr
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[quote name='abcdef44' timestamp='1351941189' post='4996823']
I've read a trustful statistics for Switzerland in a newspaper ~1-2 years ago which showed MS market share to have dropped to ~78%. If I remeber correctly this was only
for desktop and servers, not even including mobiles.
The're are also some online sites stating that Linux has a share of ~1%, hahaha now this must be outdated by ~10 years at least.
[/quote]

online statistics tend to count web browser usage shares, not marketshare or number of installations. Since the vast majority of Linux devices today are in the embedded and server markets they simply don't show up in the browser statistics. (Nor does machines that happen to run any good adblock browser plugin that also blocks the stat trackers) Edited by SimonForsman
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Yes, I only remember they said Linux to be strong on servers and Mac increasing on Desktops.
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[url="http://www.gamedev.net/topic/633841-microsoft-under-fire/"]http://www.gamedev.net/topic/633841-microsoft-under-fire/[/url]
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@ Daaark: Yes but very outdated thinking. I thought once alike, but since I've lost all data back on Windows98, I use Linux without any problems at all.
Linux was a mess but it's getting better. I wish more LSB stuff alike: [url="http://www.google.com/intl/de/earth/download/ge/agree.html"]http://www.google.com/intl/de/earth/download/ge/agree.html[/url]
will come in and the next logical step would be a common package for all Linux forks.
Ubuntu is not only booting faster then Windows 8, even games are running faster. My X-Plane 10 is ~ 60 FPS on Linux but only 50 on Windows 8 with a GTX 460!

And no, there's good stuff coming for Linux alike: [url="http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/"]http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/[/url]
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Wine already does a pretty good job of playing DX games on Linux. I wouldn't try to create a whole new library for that, I'd try helping with wine instead.

The biggest problem with Linux gaming is the GPU driver performance.
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[quote name='abcdef44' timestamp='1352011486' post='4997101']
@ Daaark: Yes but very outdated thinking. I thought once alike, but since I've lost all data back on Windows98, I use Linux without any problems at all.
Linux was a mess but it's getting better. I wish more LSB stuff alike: [url="http://www.google.com/intl/de/earth/download/ge/agree.html"]http://www.google.co...d/ge/agree.html[/url]
will come in and the next logical step would be a common package for all Linux forks.
Ubuntu is not only booting faster then Windows 8, even games are running faster. My X-Plane 10 is ~ 60 FPS on Linux but only 50 on Windows 8 with a GTX 460!

And no, there's good stuff coming for Linux alike: [url="http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/"]http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/[/url]
[/quote]

What does this have to do with anything? I've seen that stuff since the mid 90s. The only thing that ever changes with Linux is the date and the names.

while(1)
{
"oh, things are getting better, just you wait and see"
}

I'l tell you what is in Desktop's Linux future. The community is going to get mad and turn on whatever the next thing in the Linux World is that looks like it can gain any traction. Then they will sabotage it somehow. Then we start over with someone else wanting to finally get it right, and they'll release a new distro with a new garish color scheme, then The community is going to get mad and turn on whatever the n....etc,etc,etc

Linux on the desktop is like alchemy in the old days. You take/raise money from naive people, promise the moon, and deliver nothing. Then you keep making excuses and new promises to keep milking cash until you need to move on to the next naive person.

If you lost all your data, you should have had backups. That's a user issue, not an OS issue. And even then, usually a hardware failure issue. Any computing device, at any time, regardless of OS or hardware configuration, can lose your data at any time.
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