Guns in gangs/urban tactical wargame

Game Design and Theory Game Design

Started by suliman November 17, 2012 09:18 AM

13 comments, last by Stroppy Katamari 11 years, 4 months ago

1,720

Author

November 17, 2012 09:18 AM

Hi

Im designing a tactical wargame set in present US. Society has more or less fallen and gangs battle the police and the military on the streets. My gun lineup is a mix of military and stolen (civilian) weapons. Both what soldiers/cops carry and what can bought on the black market.

Plz comment on the list so far. Ive for gameplay reasons divided the guns in 3 "quality/usefulness"-classes from left to right. What should be added/taken away? Should guns be moved to another quality-class?

Thanks!
Erik

PISTOL-----------------------------------------------

Lorcin 380		1911			Beretta 92fs

Bersa Thunder 	 	Glock 17		HK USP

Raven Vest		Br HiPower   		Desert Eagle

HiPoint						SigSaur P228



REVOLVER-----------------------------------------------

M1917			Colt detective		Taurus raging bull

			SW J-frame		SW model 500



MACHINEPISTOLS-----------------------------------------

Mac-10			Micro UZI		Steyr TMP

TEC-9			Scorpion		HK MP7



SMG-----------------------------------------------------

AKS-74U			MP5  HK			UMP45

Beretta m12		UZI			P90

Grease gun



SHOTGUNS------------------------------------------------

Sawnoff			Remington 870	 	Benelli m4

Double-barrered	 	Street sweeper		SPAS-12

Mossberg 500		Ithaca stakeout		AA-12



ASSAULT RIFLES------------------------------------------

Galil			AR-15			M4 carbine

Ruger AC556		AKM			HK 416

Valmet m62		Famas			HK G36

						FN SCAR-L



BATTLE RIFLES-------------------------------------------

M1 Garand		M14

			G3A3

			FN FAL



RIFLES--------------------------------------------------

SKS			Weatherby		M24 sniper

Lee Enfield		Winchester 70		Dragunov SVD

Ruger mini-14



MACHINEGUNS---------------------------------------------

RPD			M249 SAW

BAR			PKM

			m60

Katie

2,255

November 17, 2012 01:58 PM

This is almost certainly detailed enough for a first bash -- you risk adding too much differentiation.

In most combat scenarios, the models of guns involved aren't actually that important. The class is (pistol/shotty/rifle etc), and whether they're auto, semi, double/single action etc.

A much more important factor in combat like this is the user's proficiency with the weapons they have. Gangers are likely to have had lot less training with any weapon; soldiers may not have as much experience with pistols as with rifles, police officers qualify regularly with their service pistols, but would probably have as much experience with an M249 as the gangers.

It's that proficiency which determines the ability to hit things with the guns much more than any differences between the weapons. Certainly in urban combat, a pistol is useful out to (say) 40-50yards, and there's very little functional difference between the types -- the training to be able to fire it accurately on a fast-moving intermittently visible target is way more useful.

Prinz Eugn

4,433

November 19, 2012 11:32 PM

I think it would probably be a good idea to basically at least halve the variety, that list is far more extensive than any game I can think of. A lot of the guns you have are so functionally similar that it would essentially be a waste of resources to add them. It would make more sense to me to cut the number of base models to maybe 2-3 per class, but have a couple versions of each gun, like Glock 17 and Glock 17 + Laser, or any of the rifles with iron sights vs with a scope.

-Mark the Artist

Digital Art and Technical Design
Developer Journal

Daaark

3,556

November 19, 2012 11:45 PM

Gangers are likely to have had lot less training with any weapon;

Typical LA gang warfare scenario:

Gang member shoots at another; misses; hits a guy 2 blocks away in his house while sitting on the toilet.

Twitter :: DeviantArt

dakota.potts

455

November 19, 2012 11:46 PM

Also important would be to have different melee weapons ( Lead pipe vs. combat knife vs. night stick ), flashbang vs. hand grenade vs. molotov/improvised explosive, etc.

Also, different group strategies. Maybe soldiers can issue commands and other soldiers will gain an increase in skills when following that command because of their training, or gang members gain melee attack bonus when multiple members have equipped melee weapons (think of a gang beatdown).

Oolala

1,102

November 20, 2012 09:17 PM

Agreed completely, training accounts for everything.

I'd be surprised if a group of 15-20 modern, well trained soldiers couldn't defeat a group of typical gang thugs in a firefight even with being outnumbered 20 times over. You're talking about two whole different grades of fighter: one that is able to deliberately execute actions, and another that might hit a well concealed target pretty much out of dumb luck. Unless your player always plays as the soldiers, or you place your game in an imaginary setting where the skill gap isn't quite so enormous between these two groups, it's going to be a very frustrating experience.

Not even counting that soldiers tend to know not to fight where they can't win, have a whole lot better tech [even something as simple as night visiion], and also tend to be heavily armored. Modern body armor makes getting shot feel a lot more like getting punched, provided it hits the armor.

Stroppy Katamari

1,416

November 20, 2012 10:44 PM

What should be added/taken away? Should guns be moved to another quality-class?

Those things would depend entirely on what your design needs.

- Do you want all guns to be meaningfully different in function?
- Do you want realistic gun stats? (note: if you want both this and the above, you'll have very few guns in the game)
- Are you going to have bullets penetrating cover or not?
- Roughly how much shooting do you expect to happen at different distances?

suliman

1,720

Author

November 21, 2012 10:09 PM

The variety is mostly for flavor. Guns within the same class will mostly differ between quality class. Within the same class only minor differences as clip size, sound and maybe small tweaks to dam, accuracy, risk of jam etc. I agree there is a risk to add too much guns as this might just be confusing.

I will probably have differences in damage for example that is more for gameplay balance than realism.

I would want to have different ranges. Its not in any way a realistic "cops vs gangbangers" simulation. Cops/army will consist of a variety of bandits and mercenaries too (as do the criminal factions). Its not proper professionals vs punks.

3Ddreamer

3,826

November 22, 2012 12:53 AM

Hi,

In a real life collapse of the USA, there would no doubt be many more types of guns than that on your block!

As a 3D artist, I want to let you know that the large list which you have has to be combined with existing plans for other art assets and many unexpected delays in both art and coding. The guns themselves to do nice work will require a major effort in art and coding.

I just want you to know.

Clinton

Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software. The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game. Completing projects is the last but finest order.

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer

3Ddreamer

3,826

November 22, 2012 12:57 AM

[quote name='Katie' timestamp='1353160703' post='5001756']Gangers are likely to have had lot less training with any weapon;

Typical LA gang warfare scenario:

Gang member shoots at another; misses; hits a guy 2 blocks away in his house while sitting on the toilet.

[/quote]

So true! LOL

Clinton

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer

Guns in gangs/urban tactical wargame

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