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glhf

why is it recommended to make game with placeholders and do art last?

13 posts in this topic

I guess it might be best for professional studios but for indy then I think its not a bad idea to do art first or at least not delay it more than needed because if you for whatever reason stop working on the game (can happen in indy right) then you can at least sell some of your art that you made in various shops on the web.
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[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1353564564' post='5003136']
Who recommends that?
In a professional studio, you've got a whole bunch of full-time artists and programmers. If you're only making one game at a time, and you do the art last, then you'd be paying your art team to sit around doing nothing...
[/quote]

yes i also think the same, i dont really know how the studios work maybe they use artists on other projects until its time but i still dont think that sounds very efficient.
i think people who have said this for indy is if its for example just one guy working on the game... and he dont need to hire an artist before the game is more playable or if he will make everything himself then i guess he gets an illusion that the game gets done more quickly.

i dunno..
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For 2d (platformer) games, I just use squares as placeholders. The green square is the hero, blue squares are enemies, red squares are terrain.

I wouldn't consider using placeholders as recommended, but eh it all depends on what path you wanna take for developing your game.
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Have you ever seen someone who wants to learn to program games but "can't get started" because they don't have any art? [i]Those[/i] are the people that benefit most from the advice to use simple place-holders and replace it later, and they can get themselves completely stuck with thoughts like "[i]I can't start coding the main character, because I don't have a sprite for him[/i]", or "[i]how can I make a Pong clone without a paddle and ball sprite?[/i]"

In all likelihood their earliest efforts will be buggy and incomplete -- or at least not their best potential work -- whether they have good art or not, and if they're approaching things sensibly they're developing the projects as a learning experience rather than aiming to sell them anyway. The lack of art is an artificial barrier that prevents them from proceeding with their learning, when in reality all they need is some simple shapes to see that their code is working correctly. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
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Game making is, it seems to me, a team effort. You can't really, except for the simplest games, do it alone. And coders (look at me!) often make terrible artists because we're more concerned with optimisation than artistic vision. We'd dump the colours if we though we could shave off a microsecond on a tight loop.
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[quote name='MaxieQ' timestamp='1353885889' post='5004037']
Game making is, it seems to me, a team effort. You can't really, except for the simplest games, do it alone. And coders (look at me!) often make terrible artists because we're more concerned with optimisation than artistic vision. We'd dump the colours if we though we could shave off a microsecond on a tight loop.
[/quote]
Interesting vision. Myself I care a lot about art and graphical appearance, but I simply cannot produce any myself. I definitely wouldn't sacrifice an artistic aspect of the game clawing for a couple extra frames per second. I mean, performance is important, but at some point you just need to accept that doing computational work takes time. Edited by Bacterius
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[quote name='Bacterius' timestamp='1353888295' post='5004047']
[quote name='MaxieQ' timestamp='1353885889' post='5004037']
Game making is, it seems to me, a team effort. You can't really, except for the simplest games, do it alone. And coders (look at me!) often make terrible artists because we're more concerned with optimisation than artistic vision. We'd dump the colours if we though we could shave off a microsecond on a tight loop.
[/quote]
Interesting vision. Myself I care a lot about art and graphical appearance, but I simply cannot produce any myself. I definitely wouldn't sacrifice an artistic aspect of the game clawing for a couple extra frames per second. I mean, performance is important, but at some point you just need to accept that doing computational work takes time.
[/quote]

Art is a complex profession in and of itself. You need to know a lot to produce something decent.

I just don't think that it is reasonable, or should be expected, that a game maker should possess both the coder and art skill sets.

I think of making games as more like making movies than writing books or playing music. You need both a director and an editor, and it's rare that the roles are rolled into one person because the skillsets are so diverse. I think that's the case in game making too.
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[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1353564264' post='5003135']
I guess it might be best for professional studios but for indy then I think its not a bad idea to do art first or at least not delay it more than needed because if you for whatever reason stop working on the game (can happen in indy right) then you can at least sell some of your art that you made in various shops on the web.
[/quote]

For hobbyists the main reason to wait with recruiting anything really is that skilled <insert whatever you want here> simply do not join an unpaid project unless they can see real progress on it. (If you try to recruit for a project that isn't well underway allready you won't attract the talent you need/want, people who do not know you will judge your project by its progress, not its promises).

Start with what you are good at. Edited by SimonForsman
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Hm... me and my coders have this argument all the time. Being an artist "primarily" the issue is that when we make something for the game we make it for the state the game is in. If some code changes that effects your design, lighting, shaders, size limitations, and thousands of other possible things must be in place before the real art can sit comfortably within your creation. Im not saying wait till the very end of development but I am saying it would be best for the team to have something solid for the artist to work from.

I envision the code to be the bones and muscle of the game. They give it movement and mechanical function. The art is the skin and hair, the clothes, the superficial things that help you make it all look worth something. Without one the other is doomed to fail but you must have a sturdy mold to work from before you can even begin to create solid art.
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