• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
dave

Unity
IMGUI

9 posts in this topic

I post here because the forums at Molly Rocket seem more dead than tank tops.

I'm looking into this for a second time and i really can't decide whether:

a) Everything i want to do with it is possible.
b) It's actually any more simple than a well written RMGUI.


To those of you here that have written a decent IMGUI, or have atleast attempted one, i'd like to know how you:

a) Implemented modal dialogs.
b) Implemented draggable windows.
c) How did you identify a control between frames? I don't think the user passing an ID in to each Do*() method is an acceptable solution.
d) Do you have a designer for it or is it all hand coded? In most cases not having a designer is not acceptable.
e) Did you notice any performance issues when doing multiple passes over the UI code. It has been suggested that to solve the modal problem you need to do an examination pass before the input pass in order to detect ahead of time that something is modal.
f) Did you find any performance issues with alot of widgets?
g) How did you persist state between frames?

It also appears that the Unity 3D Editor is written entirely in an IMGUI and it's certainly pretty complex and this is encouraging however im not sure i believe it to be true yet as running fraps gives a framerate only for the game window. Not sure why the rest of the Unity Editor ui doesnt have a framerate if it is indeed immediate.

IMGUI or RMGUI guys, i don't see the answer yet, what's your take?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for replying guys.

@smr - Yes i agree

@Krohm - Your thread there was one that i came across while researching this. As you say it's kinda surprising that for a technique that is supposedly so much better that there are still only very few (if not only one) commercial examples of it in use. I suffer the same problems as you did in that thread and i think it is clear that an RMGUI is the most suitable solution for me in my project.

I was actually scripting my IMGUI with Lua and to be honest that was quite powerful in itself, but it wasn't scalable.

Thanks,
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think Zipster hit it spot on.

RMGUI's cater towards artists/designers at the front of the pipleline and programmers at the end. IMGUI is the exact opposite - programmers will implement the logical components of the gui and then can expose the data (layout, color, theme, etc) for artists/designers to tweak.

I suppose it really depends on the project/team you are working with. If your engineers are nothing more than code monkeys, and need specific requirements for everything they write, then RMGUI may be best suited. However, if the engineers are making more of the design decisions, and you just want to outsource your art, then IMGUI may be best suited.

To answer some of the OP questions:
a) I would implement modal dialogs as part of a layered screen system, and use multiple IMGUI objects. You can push and pop "screens" onto the stack and trap input to the top level. Typically though, IMGUI does not support overlapping widgets.

b) Draggable windows are implemented by returning the (x, y) position of the window out of the function, and using them as inputs for the next frame. The IMGUI will store the mouse drag information in it's internal state.

c) I don't think you can identify controls throughout a frame. All widgets are independent of eachother. I'm having trouble coming up with reasons why you need to identify a control with IMGUI.

d) As in the paragraph above, IMGUI is probably better suited for programmers at the beginning of the pipeline (i.e. hand coded), and then expose whatever data you need tweaked to the artists. Using a generic designer to be later implemented into the game by programmers doesn't really make sense to me with IMGUI. The IMGUI is tightly coupled to the code flow.

e) I don't have an answer.
f) I don't have an answer.

g) An IMGUI can store whatever data it needs between frames. Typically it stores a variety of IDs that reference to what widget is 'hot' or 'active'. The key point about IMGUI is that typically only one widget can be interacted with at a time, so storing state in every individual widget is a waste.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='web383' timestamp='1354641986' post='5007136']
c) I don't think you can identify controls throughout a frame. All widgets are independent of eachother. I'm having trouble coming up with reasons why you need to identify a control with IMGUI.[/quote]Because you might need to associate a specific state with it. If the state is part of the model, that's no trouble (except the code needs to cater with this possibility). If the state is part of some external setting (such as skinning) the code has no way to deal with this. When scripting enters the picture the need for robust state association becomes a priority (as mis-guessing a control state association might violate some invariant).

Personally, after IMGUI, I looked at cocoa bindings and I found them quite more promising. Unfortunately, the amount of machinery required to make them work is scary.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the replies guys, i think given that there is still so much doubt over how some of the issues i mentioned might be solved im just going to revert back to a retained GUI. I know however is solved in there.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

I stumbled on this topic while searching for the keyword. Recently released my ImGui implementation here fyi https://github.com/ocornut/imgui

On your questions,

 

" a) Implemented modal dialogs. "

 

That's not a really a problem for the low-level ImGui. My implementation allows to create any number of window - ImGui::Begin("window 1"): ImGui::End()

 

" b) Implemented draggable windows. "

 

The library context knows on which "window" you are adding widgets to and they are created relative to a window position. It draws windows sorted, allow you to move/resize them.

 

" c) How did you identify a control between frames? I don't think the user passing an ID in to each Do*() method is an acceptable solution. "

 

Controls typically have a string so you are already passing an ID.

Add an identifier stack (per-window+explicit push/pop) to resolve collisions in case of looping or recursing or opening node, it works really easily you rarely have to worry about identifiers.

 

" d) Do you have a designer for it or is it all hand coded? In most cases not having a designer is not acceptable. "

 

Mine is hand coded, a designer would defeat its purpose. Frankly I think UI designers are backward at least for the kind of things I am using it for. I can create a new tools in a matter of minutes, without even restarting my application (using modern C++ compiler with Edit&Continue or calling via a scripting language).

 

" e) Did you notice any performance issues when doing multiple passes over the UI code. It has been suggested that to solve the modal problem you need to do an examination pass before the input pass in order to detect ahead of time that something is modal. "

 

I am not doing multiple passes.

 

" f) Did you find any performance issues with alot of widgets? "

 

Performance are alright, we have pretty complex UI (data browsing, debugger) that gets created/updated/render in less than a millisecond - that include traversing source data.

" g) How did you persist state between frames? "

 

Via implicit ID. The library just track what it needs but that's very little.

 

To be clear, I agree it is harder to implement automatic layout in ImGui types of library. I just don't think automatic layout are actually that useful, it's very easy to achieve layout programatically. So my stance is to keep the ImGui very simple to use rather than clutter it with things liek half assed multi-pass attempt.

 

Been using it and team shipped games with it (PixelJunk Shooter 1/2, PixelJunk 4am, Tearaway). Still usiang it for subsequent pro and homebrew projects.

Edited by ocornut
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a pretty old topic, it's pretty unlikely that the original poster is still looking for answers to this -- thanks for adding the information for any future searchers who land on this though -- I'm closing this one, but if anyone stumbles upon this and has related questions please feel free to start a new topic.

 

//EDIT:  This is a topic that isn't discussed particularly frequently, and it seems this particular topic ranks pretty well on search engines, so I've changed my mind -- I'm going to leave it open for now in case anyone else wants to contribute.  An old topic being brought back from the dead really isn't harmful if new information is added, especially if it's one that is likely to be found in searches. smile.png

Edited by jbadams
Re-opening topic.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Similar Content

    • By IamMediaGames
      Do you like numbers?
      Actually I do.
      When I was child, I enjoyed to make multiples of 10 using license plate.
      It was not a big deal, but quite interesting to me.
      Decades later I planned to make a game and remembered that time.
      So I decided to develop game based on that memory.
      At the first time , it was just game to make 10, but I started to put various game like elements: 
      items, obstacles, store, trophies, leader board, etc...
      And finally it becomes a game.
      Some people tells me it's too difficult, but some people tells me it's enjoyable.
      How does it looks like to you?
      "Puzzle Ten Final"
      Android Exclusive.
       
       
       
       
    • By Kajamaz
       
      Summary: EverEmber Reborn is a multiplayer online hardcore open-world action RPG. 



      Description:
      The game takes place in the world of EverEmber, a fantasy world where you have no direction, only your skill and other players to either aid or hinder you on your journey. The game is a first person open world pvp game, with progression aspects taken from agar and slither. The world is not too huge, and because of that players will constantly fight and die, dropping their obtained gear and forcing to restart. The combat is skill based, with many places to explore. The best aspects from Runescape, Ultima, Mortal online, and the Elder Scrolls games are taken and incorporated. Everyone has their own adventure, it’s your choice how it starts and ends.

      EverEmber Reborn is a sequel to the game EverEmber Online (check it out at http://www.everember.com/). They are very different in their concept and execution, but the fantasy elements and ideas are brought over from its predecessor. We have been developing EverEmber online for over 4 years, but it’s time we move on. We have also worked on various private server projects, so the developmental process is nothing new for us.

      Team:
      We currently have a fairly large development team already, 10 main developers, myself, Ozfer (server host, developer, IT tech), Juicyz (Lead Programmer), EMPHyperdrive (Programmer) Amit (Game Developer and Modeler), HugeJackedman (Game Developer), Gw1p (Game developer), Naitsirik (Modeler), Symbolizemusic (Musician), Aytimothy (Programmer). We also have a musician assisting us (Davide Severi) with our soundtrack and a concept and concept artist (Akram). SeeEnvy is a writer for us.

      What we're looking for:

      What we need are programmers as of this moment. We need someone who is determined on helping us program the game itsself. We have much of the networking done and we are using Photon. The language we're using is C#, so knowledge of C# is a MUST HAVE!

      Requirements:

      -Experience with Unity and its technology

      -Interest in the games concept

      -Ability to do one of the things listed in our needs, either C# unity programming, or networking assistance.

      -Time to dedicate to the game, we don’t have a constraint but a few hours every couple of days will suffice.

      -Be able to communicate in English, as all of our team speaks English either fluently or well.

      -Have a method through which we could pay you eventually.

      Eye Candy (In-game screenshots):







      More Eye Candy/Concept Art:
       



       
       
       
      If you are interested, please do contact us via Everemberonline@gmail.com or message me here on unity forums with what you can do for us, why we interest you, and whatever questions or comments you have. Feel free to join our website if you cannot help us in development, but instead can assist us by playing the game upon release or testing it!

      http://www.everember.com/

      See you in the land of EverEmber.
    • By tatar1nro
      Hi, we are small game develop studio called Drunken Monday. We are only two people and during the last year we developed a cross-platform multiplayer game: Slash Arena. And we're almost done. We are glad to present you our game:

      Massively multiplayer online battles with swords and axes.
      Simple arcade action! Dodge the attack and choose a perfect time to strike.
      Upgrade your weapon, slash enemies, collect resources and reach the top!

      Battle Modes:
      ★ Deathmatch — Player vs All mode for 30 players. Score the highest damage and survive to win.
      ★ Arena 1vs1 — ranking duel for hardcore players. Your skills mean more than your high-level weapon.
      Features:
      ★ Rapid battles. Play 5 minutes or 5 hours. It’s all up to you!
      ★ Swing your hammer and make 'em fly! Damage is calculated according to physical laws. Timing and distance matter!
      ★ Two types of attack — enough to make your enemy suffer from a painful combo! Master your skills.
      ★ Separate ratings for each Battle Mode. Monitor your progress.
      ★ Monthly rewards for the best players. Earn a pile of resources and unique character portraits.
      ★ Daily tasks. See if you can cope with them! >:]
      ★ Three characters with unique weapons and fighting styles. More characters are coming soon!
      ★ More than 30 upgrade levels for each character’s weapon and armor. Start with a simple leather jacket and get to the legendary royal armor!
      ★ Character’s appearance changes each 3 levels. Everyone will see how cool you are!

       
      Game available on: Facebook, it passed greenlight and coming on Steam, soft-launched on GooglePlay and AppStore in Russia ( If you contact us we will send you .apk or testflight invitation ). Also take a look at Slash Arena: Online and Drunken Monday web sites. 
      We will be glad to hear your opinion!
    • By NA-45
      EDIT: We've found a designer/composer and an artist.  I'm looking for one more artist!
       
      I'm currently working on Metroidvania style game that I was inspired to start by Hollow Knight and Beksiński's art.

       It's built in Unity using C# and has quite a bit done already.  I'm handling the programming myself and have a working model (besides combat which is a WIP) that can be expanded greatly depending on where we decide to take the project.  You can see the current test area here: https://streamable.com/mp5o8  Since I'm not artistically gifted, its all rectangles but can easily be skinned once we've desired on designs.
      I have professional experience using Unity and C# working on both a released game and a prototype as well as having extensive Java knowledge.  I also dabble in Python with a little bit of C++.
      I have worked on and completed many projects before, the most recent being a 2D stick fighting game written ground up in Java Swing (don't ask why): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Bkoyp_f0o
      I'm looking for a 2D artist (potentially more than one) to create concept and game art and a designer/writer who can help flesh out the story as well as map out and create challenging and eye catching areas.  I can handle most if not all of the programming side of things though if there is anyone who is extremely passionate about this sort of thing, I'd consider splitting the load.
      The end goal is a completed game that can be sold however profit isn't really a concern to me as it's mostly a labor of love from my part.  Any profits would be split between team members however that's pretty far off so don't make that a reason to join.
      ______________________________
      The story I have in mind is something like this:
      A man wakes up in a chasm that stretches seemingly endlessly in both directions lined with enormous statues.

       He discovers a temple with text above a closed gate that tells of the failed kingdom that lies below.  After finding a way around this, he drops down into the subterranean kingdom.  Adventuring through the labrynth below, he comes across different cities in which the residents succumbed to different sins such as Greed, Wrath, etc.  Each city tells a story of how its fixation on something lead to their demise leading up to a fight with the personification of their mistake.
      ______________________________
      An very rough idea for Waterways, a potential area:
       - To enter you must be wearing a pair of glasses that you find somewhere earlier in the ruins.  There are similar glasses found in every home.  Everything appears incredibly beautiful however something seems wrong.  After triggering some event, the glasses break and it's revealed that the glasses are made of some sort of stone that makes everything appear differently.  The city is in ruins and absolutely disgusting as everything was neglected.  
       - The only thing that remains intact is in the center of the city, an incredible statue of a goddess holding up a large sphere of the same material that was used for the glass.  You slowly learn the story behind the statue: the goddess came from the sea that the city lies on and brought prosperity to them.  
       - After opening up the the temple of the goddess that lies right on the edge of the waters, a giant sheet of the glass covers an opening in the back of the temple that reveals the goddess behind it.  You shatter the glass and it becomes apparent that the goddess is actually a disgusting creature half beached and mostly immobile that appears to secrete the material that makes up the glass. Fight ensues.
      ______________________________
      The combat is pretty up in the air and part of the reason I need a designer to bounce ideas off of but I think it will be something like this:
       - 4 orbs equipped at a time
       - 2 orbs selected at a time
       - Pressing the cast button will cast a spell determined by the 2 orbs that are selected
       - Spells cost mana however you can use spells with 0 mana and it will cost health instead
       - These spells in addition to being useful for combat, are the Metroidvania "gating" metchanic.  For instance, one of the conceptualized spells is a water orb + water orb to create a ice pillar that can be either used to block projectiles/enemy paths or to jump on to reach high areas
      ______________________________
      If you're interested or have any questions, contact me through discord.  My id is NA-45#3692. 
    • By sZokka
      Radio Rabbit
      DOWNLOAD:
      https://gamejolt.com/games/RadioRabbit/269209

      About The game
      Radio Rabbit is a local coop shoot ‘em up where two players control one more or less combined character. The character exists out of a rabbit’s body and a floating, still to the body connected, giant eye.
      Each player controls one of them.

      The rabbit’s goal is to fly safely through the level and to avoid enemies to reach the goal.  The Eye on the other hand can shoot. He is the one who clears the way. One character can move the other can shoot. So both player need to work together to fight of evil creatures and to complete the level.

      •    explore the level to find the key which activates the portal gate
      •    escape through the portal before the timer runs out
      •    if you are to slow, the nuke will explode
      •    use your character abilities, the rabbit can boost while the eye got the vision
      •    you’ll get more powerful abilities from items such as a supershot
      •    shoot as many enemies as possible to gain score
      •    remaining time at the end of each level gets added to the score
       

      Features
      •    2 Player couch coop
      •    4 level + tutorial
      •    an epic boss fight
      •    fully gamepad supported (XBox or equivalent)
      •    local high score
       
      Grab a friend and check it out!
      Please feel free to leave comments and feedback!
      DOWNLOAD:
      https://gamejolt.com/games/RadioRabbit/269209
      and ENJOY!
  • Popular Now