• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
DmitryNik

Ooops... XNA is dead?!.

50 posts in this topic

Hello.

I've read this article http://www.wpcentral.com/xna-dead-long-live-xna and it seems author is right about XNA. So, Microsoft pulled a plug on XNA.[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/blink.png[/img]
Does anybody have more info on the topic? It would be really interesting, finally, to know about real future of this framework.

Thank you.[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] Edited by DmitryNik
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='6677' timestamp='1354287584' post='5005704']
The XNA resources are all there, it still works. Its just they haven't updated or commented on it in eons.

Monogame is an excellent alternative (it is infact a clone)
[/quote]
Thank you for your answer. So, is there a new version coming soon? I'm asking about this, because, I'd rather spend some time for learning DirectX via C++ then waste my time on something that will not be supported anymore. Why Microsoft cannot just announce that a new version is coming? Edited by DmitryNik
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Cornstalks' timestamp='1354292816' post='5005729']
We had a couple threads about it this year: [url="http://www.gamedev.net/topic/633714-xnas-future/"]XNA's Future[/url] and [url="http://www.gamedev.net/topic/631533-is-xna-dying-and-ms-forcing-to-c/"]Is XNA dying and MS forcing to C++?[/url]

But of course, XNA wasn't ever going to be able to live forever. It was tied to D3D9, and current generation stuff is D3D11. And you can't just make XNA use D3D11 because, for example, the Xbox runs XNA but doesn't have support for D3D10 or D3D11.

Promit (a GameDev user and Microsoft MVP) [url="http://ventspace.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/directx-and-xna-status-report/"]wrote a post[/url] 367 days ago (just had to specify the day count because it's so close to exactly one year!) that you may be interested in
[/quote]

Thank you for the links. Yeah, it's a sad news. So much to think about using any managed code...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='BCullis' timestamp='1354295062' post='5005737']
[quote name='DmitryNik' timestamp='1354294249' post='5005733']
So much to think about using any managed code...
[/quote]

Monogame?
SlimDX?
SharpDX?
OpenTK?
ANX (not sure of status of this one, I just hear it mentioned)

...Unity scripting?

Game programming with C# is far from dead just because XNA is an end-of-life framework (which is still fine if you want to target up to Win7 and Xbox with only DX9 tech). If you've invested time and resources into developing in a managed environment, there are lots of opportunities to continue using those skills.
[/quote]

I guess, you are right. Also, I can use my skills in DirectX(matrices, collision detection and other basic algorithms) for gaining some interesting result. Also, as far as I know, NVIDIA provides UDK for free and other their libraries.

Thank you, guys, for your answers. Topic can be closed unless microsoft specialists will come here and break all rumors(I doubt it) =)
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='DmitryNik' timestamp='1354296922' post='5005748']
Thank you, guys, for your answers. Topic can be closed unless microsoft specialists will come here and break all rumors(I doubt it) =)
[/quote]
FYI, here at GameDev we discourage closing topics (or marking them as [SOLVED]), specifically because someone may have something good to contribute. If not, then the thread will die a natural death.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1354299616' post='5005761']
Hi,

Game developers, including world class ones, are making great C# based games even now, as is the case with the most common languages.

I personally would look at SharpDX or Mono first and then other options like Unity 3D. I feel that someday C# will be at or near parody with C++ in a general sense in the game development community. The language itself is more than 95+% of game developers need and certainly beginners and intermediate programmers have practically everything they need in C#. Why change ships in mid - ocean? [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]



Clinton
[/quote]

Microsoft has done it before. OK, I agree, everything was for the best, but it would be nice to hear some announcement. Developers are people too and they deserve a good treatment.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Cornstalks' timestamp='1354297577' post='5005752']
[quote name='DmitryNik' timestamp='1354296922' post='5005748']
Thank you, guys, for your answers. Topic can be closed unless microsoft specialists will come here and break all rumors(I doubt it) =)
[/quote]
FYI, here at GameDev we discourage closing topics (or marking them as [SOLVED]), specifically because someone may have something good to contribute. If not, then the thread will die a natural death.
[/quote]

I'm sorry. I didn't know it.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='TheChubu' timestamp='1354298352' post='5005757']
Well... Maybe we'll se a new XNA when the next Xbox comes out?
[/quote]

I guess, Microsoft will come up with something new and exciting.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is plenty of support for C# outside Microsoft. A game developer could make an AAA quality popular game using C# with little or no Microsoft direct support right now and over the next several years, too. No language depends exclusively on Microsoft support for game development. I believe you know this, but just for clarification.


Clinton Edited by 3Ddreamer
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1354301431' post='5005779']
There is plenty of support for C# outside Microsoft. A game developer could make an AAA quality popular game using C# with little or no Microsoft direct support right now and over the next several years, too. No language depends exclusively on Microsoft support for game development. I believe you know this, but just for clarification.


Clinton
[/quote]

This is true.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I know most of you guys are C# devs but remember us Vb devs are affected as well. Typically VB is not a strong language for game dev but with the support of XNA it was a blessing. Now were just kinda left in the dark again. Microsoft needs to stop pissing off there devs or everyone will switch to IOS eww.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='mholmes' timestamp='1354306603' post='5005822']
I know most of you guys are C# devs but remember us Vb devs are affected as well. Typically VB is not a strong language for game dev but with the support of XNA it was a blessing. Now were just kinda left in the dark again. Microsoft needs to stop pissing off there devs or everyone will switch to IOS eww.
[/quote]

Or Android OS. As I mentioned above, developers are human beings too. And Microsoft MUST to treat us well.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='DmitryNik' timestamp='1354296922' post='5005748']
NVIDIA provides UDK for free and other their libraries.

[/quote]NVidia have zero relation to UDK. UDK is made by Epic.




Monogame is more or less an exact clone of XNA. Porting between the 2 is usually a case of switching your using statements and your references. Plus you gain mac and linux support (and more). On supported hardware it uses SharpDX as its backend, this is a DirectX wrapper (supporting 11), otherwise it uses OpenTK as its backend which is an OpenGL wrapper.





There are excellent VB.net > C# converters out there. Any library that works with C# usually works fine with VB.net. Edited by 6677
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='mholmes' timestamp='1354306603' post='5005822']
Microsoft needs to stop pissing off there devs or everyone will switch to IOS eww.
[/quote]

I would switch to Linux in a heartbeat before going to Apple. Actually, even if all computers in the world except for Apples were to stop working, I would start a new career before switching to Apple.

And with the train wreck that is Windows 8, I'm getting very close to switching over to Linux completely.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Suspense' timestamp='1354314858' post='5005871']
I would switch to Linux in a heartbeat before going to Apple. Actually, even if all computers in the world except for Apples were to stop working, I would start a new career before switching to Apple.
[/quote]

Jeez, that's a little harsh. What about the fact that almost everything that runs on Linux also runs on OS X and that they're practically interchangeable? And what about Clang and other cool Apple things?

Also, you'll go broke targeting Linux. There's no market there.

Now, once Steam releases on Linux... I don't think there will be a huge stampede to Linux, but it could be a pretty monumental shift.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The performance of XNA is not an issue because of the increase in computer performance - hardware, software, and CPU or VGA chipset architecture. DX9 games will be playable for years to come on PCs. The support now comes from various experienced communities for XNA. If anything, XNA games perform better than ever and might increase slightly in the next year or two because of both experience and hardware. For beginners and intermediate game developers, performance of XNA games is not the issue, but the coding habits are the issue. Actually, a less than top performing engine actually makes demand for the programmer to improve the quality of the game source code - an advantage with XNA.


Since you mentioned market, et1337, we know that all these things in this thread effect the interest in XNA. From a marketing strategy point of view, XNA is best left without support in the DX9 form. I am convinced that technical advancements in software and hardware caused the decision.

I agree that from a customer relations point of view it was a decision about XNA which has done short term harm to Microsoft reputation and client retention. Apple and Google will increase gaming market share in the next 2 or 3 years I believe. Microsoft must have a reply to the cross - platform games which are conquering now or perhaps fall too far behind. On the other hand, if Microsoft has something much better than XNA in the lab, then a lot of the damage will be overcome and probably much more interest will appear over what they had with XNA.

XNA is still quite beautiful and powerful enough to use. I feel that it is not dead. Use it for a couple years and you will be glad that you did. A lot of growth and fun is still to be had with it, in my opinion. By the time you become very skilled with it, maybe the next great thing will be there for you, but you will sure be ready for anything.


Clinton
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1354322246' post='5005900']
The performance of XNA is not an issue because of the increase in computer performance - hardware, software, and CPU or VGA chipset architecture. DX9 games will be playable for years to come on PCs
[/quote]
One problem you'll run into even if your computer will have legacy DX9 support? Not being able to use shader model 4, 5, and higher features. Beginner/intermediate coders like you mention probably won't need them, but it is something to be aware of when picking a library.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='6677' timestamp='1354311641' post='5005855']
NVidia have zero relation to UDK. UDK is made by Epic.
[/quote]

OK, my mistake about UDK.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As XNA has proven, it is possible for very popular libraries to disappear. Why did people think differently?

Luckily as others in this thread have stated, there are alternatives like MonoGame.

However, If a language disappears, it is a very different story.

For example the original Visual Basic language (I.e VB6) was dropped by Microsoft in favor of a very different language (VB.NET). Even today I am often contracted to port VB6 code into an available language (usually C++ for the real legacy stuff).

So, perhaps use what ever library you want and just be sure to adapt, however be very afraid of proprietary languages such as LotusScript, UnityScript, C++/CLR, C++/RT, UnityScript because if those die, it is such a pain to recode your whole project. Edited by Karsten_
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Karsten_' timestamp='1354366613' post='5006020']
As XNA has proven, it is possible for very popular libraries to disappear. Why did people think differently?
[/quote]

May be because some people really like this library and like the way the things were done: convenience, effectiveness and efficiency. I don't know, some people just stick with that.

[quote name='Karsten_' timestamp='1354366613' post='5006020']
So, perhaps use what ever library you want and just be sure to adapt, however be very afraid of proprietary languages such as LotusScript, UnityScript, C++/CLR, C++/RT, UnityScript because if those die, it is such a pain to recode your whole project.
[/quote]

OK, in this list you actually can put whatever language or script used nowadays. Recoding is always a painful procedure and everybody want to avoid it. But, for instance, you as language vendor, could announce developers officially that current technology will be killed of very soon. Microsoft just drop off XNA about 2 years ago and they said nothing. This is the only reason, why do people keep asking, what happened to XNA? Why doesn't XNA work with Win 8? etc. Moreover there should not have been any rumors around at all. Edited by DmitryNik
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0