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DmitryNik

Ooops... XNA is dead?!.

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Postie    1559
When the next Xbox is released, it's going to need an SDK/GDK of some sort. That could be a new version of XNA, or something completely different. If it's due in a few years I imagine they'd need to be getting it into the hands of developers pretty soon so there are games available at release?

Personally I think they goofed when they tried to make the exact same framework work for all conceivable devices, not recognising that the long hardware cycle of the Xbox compared to the PC/mobile/tablet means it's holding you back for quite a few years.

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6677    1054
Commercial games are not made with XNA though. Big name studios just get hardware capable of running unsigned code and the xbox compilers and documentation etc. They can run native ASM on it if they want.

They have no obligation to provide a service like XNA and the XBLIG. Sony and nintendo do fine without (although sony now have a similar program for the vita). I think they will give us access anyway, why would they take that away when they make a nice little profit from royalties and indie licenses?

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Starnick    1892
I've bought - and played - at least two XNA games commercially via steam (Terraria and Magicka...Magicka being one that looks more like a "real commercial" game in quality, as well as new content). Probably a few others, especially since the "steam green lighting" system is getting more and more indie games onto the distribution platform.

I'm sure if there is no XNA sequel (or any official C#/.NET graphics binding from Microsoft), eventually more and more folks will be using something more up to date like SharpDX and it will be true that you won't see anyone using XNA commercially . But that's exactly what it is too...a means to do the graphics. Xna has some extra incentivies that makes it nice to use for game making, but at the end of the day most of that work is done (at least, the quality ones) through your efforts, sweat, and blood (or tears). Edited by Starnick

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TheChubu    9452
[quote name='superman3275' timestamp='1354392150' post='5006083']
No offense, however this is the 7th thread on this topic in the past two months [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]!
[/quote]Too late, I'm offended now! [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/angry.png[/img]

Nah seriously, does somebody knows if there are any news regarding a future online platform of the next Xbox? 'Cause, as I see it, XNA offered to "tie in" Microsoft's biggest platforms around. It does surely looks like a good deal for them, specially with the direction they're going with Windows 8.

Imagine a single XNAish framework that works across all Windows 8 editions and Xbox, obviously passing through Windows Store first. It would be strange not to see such thing in the next few years.

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Xanather    782
I feel like they have "dropped" XNA because of their efforts on native development and windows 8/WinRT/WP8...

The lead developer (Shawn Hargreaves) of XNA has moved on to... a XNA-like framework for C++ [url="http://directxtk.codeplex.com/"]http://directxtk.codeplex.com/[/url].

Just use MonoGame (actively developed clone of XNA) or SharpDX (which will require you to learn the actual DirectX library).

I would be very happy if they happen to create another XNA-like framework for the new xbox or upgrade the current XNA. Edited by Xanather

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6677    1054
With their native code push I don't think its entirely infeasible to suggest that the "XNA Replacement" on the next gen console could well support native code with a few restrictions, maybe still requiring the indie license and using the same distribution methods, if this is the case it would also be theoretically possible for a monogame port I guess. I wonder if monogame on WP8 is possible

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vdaras    293
[quote name='6677' timestamp='1354557291' post='5006692']
With their native code push I don't think its entirely infeasible to suggest that the "XNA Replacement" on the next gen console could well support native code with a few restrictions, maybe still requiring the indie license and using the same distribution methods, if this is the case it would also be theoretically possible for a monogame port I guess. I wonder if monogame on WP8 is possible
[/quote]

Monogame is definitely possible on WP8. As is Microsoft's XNA.

The problem with XNA is that, from what we know so far, it won't be supported anymore..so no new WP8 features for XNA apps.

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6677    1054
Well lack of XNA support is why I was thinking monogame. But I guess really thats a pointless suggestion come to think of it, its easy enough to backport to XNA which for now still exists and can deploy to WP7, WP8 then runs the WP7 apps no problem so I guess really it doesnt matter if monogame works or not, although a native version would still be cool.

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Zipster    2360
[quote name='TheChubu' timestamp='1354483436' post='5006395']
Nah seriously, does somebody knows if there are any news regarding a future online platform of the next Xbox? 'Cause, as I see it, XNA offered to "tie in" Microsoft's biggest platforms around. It does surely looks like a good deal for them, specially with the direction they're going with Windows 8.

Imagine a single XNAish framework that works across all Windows 8 editions and Xbox, obviously passing through Windows Store first. It would be strange not to see such thing in the next few years.[/quote]

If the XBox 720 is running some version of Windows 8 or RT, then the "tie in" would just be the Windows SDK. It has already subsumed DirectX. If there [i]was[/i] a native framework like XNA being developed, that's where it would go, and you'd automatically have access to it on all Microsoft platforms. However I doubt they would bother with such a framework, because it appears they don't really need to. Most major commercial developers are already using their own native in-house engines or licensing products like UDK and Unity, and frameworks like MonoGame have already started to pick up the slack for managed game developers. Microsoft created a vacuum, and it has started to fill on its own. No use spending resources on a problem that's solving itself for free [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]

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3Ddreamer    3826
That makes sense in the short term, but there are tech innovations coming on the horizon. We wonder what Microsoft will launch to take advantage of them.


Clinton Edited by 3Ddreamer

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DmitryNik    199
Here is some info about XNA and WP 8 OS: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/library/windowsphone/develop/jj207003(v=vs.105).aspx

Also, here http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windowsphone/develop/jj206940(v=vs.105).aspx could be found, what's new in Win 8 SDK.

But, no, new apps that target WP 8.0 OS [b]can't [/b]be developed. Edited by DmitryNik

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kunos    2254
I find a bit amusing how somebody here is convinced that MS will support "indie" style development on the new XBox. Ya they did on the current one, but it came long after the XBox release and I have the impression that the quality of the games released with XNA on the XBox was from poor to very poor to very poor with avatars. I don't have numbers, but I doubt it was a profitable move for MS.. so I will be really surprised to see an "indie" support on the new consoles, at least for some years after the launch.

As for being "dead".. it works on X360, PC (pretty much every Windows OS out there) and WP7x ... how can this be defined "dead" is beyond my comprehension. Edited by kunos

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3Ddreamer    3826
Well, XNA no doubt hooked and inspired many hobby and some eventual pro game programmers, so the advantages long term in that are obvious, but shorter term you are totally correct.


Clinton Edited by 3Ddreamer

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DmitryNik    199
[quote name='kunos' timestamp='1354983495' post='5008516']
I find a bit amusing how somebody here is convinced that MS will support "indie" style development on the new XBox. Ya they did on the current one, but it came long after the XBox release and I have the impression that the quality of the games released with XNA on the XBox was from poor to very poor to very poor with avatars. I don't have numbers, but I doubt it was a profitable move for MS.. so I will be really surprised to see an "indie" support on the new consoles, at least for some years after the launch.

As for being "dead".. it works on X360, PC (pretty much every Windows OS out there) and WP7x ... how can this be defined "dead" is beyond my comprehension.
[/quote]

Yeah, how remoting(another MS technique used several years ago. And as far as I know MS doesn't develop or supported it anymore either ) could be dead, if it still could be used? =)) I can't call something alive if it doesn't supported anymore(active developing, adding new features etc.). Above links could be considered only as a relief for some persons, who don't believe XNA will not be developed anymore. The sadest part of this story is: they(persons) will teach us this crap(XNA) in the uni after this X-mas, instead of changing the program. Edited by DmitryNik

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kunos    2254
[quote name='DmitryNik' timestamp='1354987013' post='5008530']
The sadest part of this story is: they(persons) will teach us this crap(XNA) in the uni after this X-mas, instead of changing the program.
[/quote]

ah.. dont worry. XNA is perfectly fine to learn the basics of game development. You won't be using what the teach you there anyway, whatever they teach you. Being a gamedev means adapt and learn something new every week.. there are so many new exciting things to explore, even without leaving the C# world... and each one of them has something to be learn from.
Techs cannot be updated and maintained forever, at the certain point it is necessary to acknowledge that a mistake was made and stop before making a bigger mistake. The future of XNA is MonoGame.. time will tell if MS lost a big chance with this one.. but, I really don't think so :)

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6677    1054
We don't even know if we will be able to run our own code on the next gen xbox. I'm hoping that we can but then I might not even be getting a new console

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3Ddreamer    3826
[quote name='DmitryNik' timestamp='1354987013' post='5008530']
I can't call something alive if it doesn't supported anymore
[/quote]

My parents long ago stopped supporting me and [i]I[/i] am still alive. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/blink.png[/img]


Clinton

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Postie    1559
[quote name='kunos' timestamp='1354983495' post='5008516']
I find a bit amusing how somebody here is convinced that MS will support "indie" style development on the new XBox.
[/quote]
That's actually a good point. XNA on the Xbox360 is the exception, not the rule. I think Microsoft are now scratching their indy development itch with windows 8, which suggests to me that they've moved on from XNA. That doesn't make it dead, but it may not receive any more love in the future.

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DmitryNik    199
[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1355006269' post='5008618']
[quote name='DmitryNik' timestamp='1354987013' post='5008530']
I can't call something alive if it doesn't supported anymore
[/quote]

My parents long ago stopped supporting me and [i]I[/i] am still alive. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/blink.png[/img]


Clinton
[/quote]

XNA is not capable to develop itself, is it? [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.png[/img]

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WillTice    534
[quote name='DmitryNik' timestamp='1354987013' post='5008530']
The sadest part of this story is: they(persons) will teach us this crap(XNA) in the uni after this X-mas, instead of changing the program.
[/quote]

You can often apply the skills you learn using one technology to other situations using similar technologies. It's still going to be useful for you.

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TheChubu    9452
[quote name='Zipster' timestamp='1354741120' post='5007516']If the XBox 720 is running some version of Windows 8 or RT, then the "tie in" would just be the Windows SDK. It has already subsumed DirectX. If there [i]was[/i] a native framework like XNA being developed, that's where it would go, and you'd automatically have access to it on all Microsoft platforms. However I doubt they would bother with such a framework, because it appears they don't really need to. Most major commercial developers are already using their own native in-house engines or licensing products like UDK and Unity, and frameworks like MonoGame have already started to pick up the slack for managed game developers. Microsoft created a vacuum, and it has started to fill on its own. No use spending resources on a problem that's solving itself for free [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]Hm, that's true. Besides, MS wouldn't want to launch a new "XNA-like" framework so late after W8 SDK...

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DmitryNik    199
[quote name='willpowered' timestamp='1355158520' post='5009121']
You can often apply the skills you learn using one technology to other situations using similar technologies. It's still going to be useful for you.
[/quote]

I guess so. I'm using those skills right now studying DircetX on my own.

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