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L. Spiro

Would You Live on Mars?

140 posts in this topic

Pay me now, based on the promise that I will do a lottery in 10 years from now (if I feel like it!) to send 40 fools to a desert where they will undergo a survivor-style TV show. If I really select some guy who paid me to take part in the desert trip, I'll be telling them they didn't make the final round, much to my regret.

Awesome idea. Why didn't I think of that. Must be because I'm no superhuman. Edited by samoth
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[quote name='samoth' timestamp='1354531082' post='5006565']
Pay me now, based on the promise that I will do a lottery in 10 years from now (if I feel like it!) to send 40 fools to a desert where they will undergo a survivor-style TV show. If I really select some guy who paid me to take part in the desert trip, I'll be telling them they didn't make the final round, much to my regret.

Awesome idea. Why didn't I think of that. Must be because I'm no superhuman.
[/quote]

Yeah.. that too...
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I'm too attached to the internet and snacks to go. But if we invent FTL communication so I can have a high speed link to Earth and regular shipments of chips and soda, I'd be down.
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[quote name='L. Spiro' timestamp='1354528006' post='5006554']
There are a few bushes and trees I pass on my way to work, but I prefer the cityscape and I generally completely look past all the green in favor of the tall shiny buildings.
Honestly grass is nothing I would miss, nor are trees.[/quote]

I think some people could get by, but I think you seriously underestimate the difference between seeing something once breifly every week and never seeing it ever. It's much more a slow grinding psychosis than you'd expect. There would probably also be a good amount of cabin fever.
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No, I won't go. While I love Mars ambience and I would make the trip listening to a lot of space music :) honestly I like to live here, on Earth and first of all on my wonderful isle: Sicily.
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No. I've spent time in the desert without creature comforts. It sucks hard. Years later and I'm still cleaning sand out of places I didn't know I had.
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[quote]you're forgetting about the shear amount of money required to do this, the only way it will get done, is by taking a step and doing it, and if that step requires essentially creating an truman show, well, it's a start.

the only possible other alternatives for generating the resources are either an extremely valuable/plentiful resource is discovered, and corporations want to mine it(such as Helium-3 on the moon), or over population/pollution forces us to leave or die, or lastly some really really rich people decide to say fuck it, let's go!.[/quote]

Any form of space exploration costs exorbitant sums of money.

If a colony existed on Mars, supplies and resources would have to be shuttled back and fourth from Earth to Mars on a regular basis. That being the case, there is no reason why a colonist should not be able to snag a ride on one of those shuttles to return to Earth.
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[quote name='L. Spiro' timestamp='1354528006' post='5006554']
Look at the positive sides: Not a single STD on the planet, everyone is as intelligent as you are, etc. We would become a colony of ultimate humans, each one in top physical and mental shape.
L. Spiro
[/quote]
Wow, that would be fun. Bunch of snobs on a desert planet [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]

Seriously. No snow, no face to the wind or rain thing, no beer under the sun thing and all the other crap. I'd miss that.
Maybe I'm just an unterhuman but this world is too sci-fi to me already (that's why I moved to Finland once). Going some even more sci-fi place with smart people, I'd drown in the bullshit.
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[quote name='rscomposer' timestamp='1354553715' post='5006670']If a colony existed on Mars, supplies and resources would have to be shuttled back and fourth from Earth to Mars on a regular basis. That being the case, there is no reason why a colonist should not be able to snag a ride on one of those shuttles to return to Earth.
[/quote]

It's several orders of magnitude cheaper to send unmanned one-way supply-ships then it is to send anything that can return.
You'd have to bring the fuel to return too, plus life-support and radiation-shielding to survive the couple-of-months travel time.
Plus have systems to go into orbit, have something that can launch to that orbit, etc...
Have the ship land? even more fuel, and a couple of magnitudes more expensive.
Not even the ship that would be built to take them there would be built to return, but be re-used to build the colony
Edited by Olof Hedman
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I haven't examined the site carefully at all but... what would you do once you got there? Would I be allowed to sit on my ass and try and code game or write or whatever I want? Or would I be expected to dedicate myself to the survival of the community? What sort of government should be expected? Laws? Is there any semblance of privacy or is everything you do up for scrutiny as it's for the well being of the colony? What if you want to break away from the colony?

It's not for me but it sounds interesting and I can respect anyone that has the guts to give it a try.
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http://mars-one.com/en/faq-en/22-faq-mission-features/196-what-will-the-astronauts-do-on-mars
[quote name='Mars One FAQ']
Our astronauts will also find time to relax. They can do most of the indoor activities that people can do on Earth: read, play games, write, paint, work out in the gym, watch TV, use the Internet, contact friends at home and so on.
There will be some communication and media limitations, due to the distance between Earth and Mars, resulting in time delays: they will have to request the movies or news broadcasts they want to see in advance. If an astronaut would like to watch the Super Bowl, he or she can request it, and it would be uploaded to the server on Mars. There will always be a time delay of at least three minutes, so the people on Mars will know who won a few minutes after the people on Earth. Hopefully this slight delay will not spoil their enjoyment of our ‘Earth sports’.
Easy Internet access will be limited to their preferred sites that are constantly updated on the local Mars web server. Other websites will take between 6 and 45 minutes to appear on their screen - first 3-22 minutes for your click to reach Earth, and then another 3-22 minutes for the website data to reach Mars. Contacting friends at home is possible by video, voice or text message (e-mail, WhatsApp, sms), but real time dialogue is not possible, because of the time delay.
[/quote]

There are also private areas on the colony.
No laws, no government, no taxes.
Breaking away from the colony means death for at least the first 15-20 years or so.


L. Spiro Edited by L. Spiro
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[quote]my bigger dream was to live on another planet. As long as I can bring cats.[/quote]

This would also be one of my conditions of going. Realistically, I think I'd rather live in a city on the moon than on Mars. On the moon you get some real-time communication, plus with no atmosphere to get in the way you can look through one serious telescope. Mars has a thin atmosphere, but its still a nice pink sky between you and the stars.
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[quote name='Olof Hedman' timestamp='1354560769' post='5006716']
[quote name='rscomposer' timestamp='1354553715' post='5006670']If a colony existed on Mars, supplies and resources would have to be shuttled back and fourth from Earth to Mars on a regular basis. That being the case, there is no reason why a colonist should not be able to snag a ride on one of those shuttles to return to Earth.
[/quote]

It's several orders of magnitude cheaper to send unmanned one-way supply-ships then it is to send anything that can return.
You'd have to bring the fuel to return too, plus life-support and radiation-shielding to survive the couple-of-months travel time.
Plus have systems to go into orbit, have something that can launch to that orbit, etc...
Have the ship land? even more fuel, and a couple of magnitudes more expensive.
Not even the ship that would be built to take them there would be built to return, but be re-used to build the colony
[/quote]

I think, if and when the first humans land on Mars, they will be landing in a ship designed to return them to Earth. I don't believe that the body sending them on that mission (likely governments, not TV producers), will not task the first expedition to Mars with establishing a colony at their destination.

That means we will already have conquered the challenges of getting humans to and from Mars. Every little thing we do in a manned mission to Mars will be outrageously expensive, and even more so in building a colony.

In truth, there will likely be a space station orbiting Mars before a colony is built. The station would be equipped with Earth Return Vehicles which would carry people back to Earth. That negates having to worry about getting a larger ship intended to be inhabited for months at a time on and off the surface of the planet. It would never have to even enter the atmosphere.

Crew and supplies would be dropped from the station to the Martian surface, and it would only require a capsule capable of taking off in the thin Martian atmosphere to rendezvous with the orbital station.

NASA has some fascinating articles about colonization and travel to Mars: http://search.nasa.gov/search/search.jsp?nasaInclude=manned+mission+to+mars
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When I think of the inherent danger involved, the amount of work that needs to be done, the type of people that are needed to do the work, the sense of confinement from being unable to leave, and the isolation (though mitigated by communication technology), I have a difficult time imagining anything less than a strong command structure being required for survival. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it does make me wonder how those rules and how that command will evolve. Disputes are inevitable whether they're as serious as whether or not to use resources to drill for water or comparatively petty as something arising from the artistic works of one colonist depicting another colonist.

It could be the best way to proceed is just dive in with full optimism and let things evolve as needs arrive. It's just that in general, I find the whole notion of starting up a civilization from scratch really interesting. We have these various systems in place that we take for granted that have evolved since before people can remember. A lot of people have the notion to scrap it all and start fresh thinking that they can do better. As dangerous a Martian frontier would be, I'd be equally worried about those sorts of ambitions.
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There will only be 4 people at first and they will be carefully chosen based on their social dynamics. They will be put together for 3 months at a time in the desert every 2 years and undergo many other group tests for 10 years before ever leaving for Mars. So if they can’t get along they don’t go together.

I am already planning what will be in my application video/letter.
I am quite serious about wanting to go myself, and am about 90% sure I will apply as soon as possible. I look forward even to the training and exercise—it would be nice to get back into shape.


L. Spiro
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[quote name='L. Spiro' timestamp='1354582761' post='5006874']
There will only be 4 people at first and they will be carefully chosen based on their social dynamics. They will be put together for 3 months at a time in the desert every 2 years and undergo many other group tests for 10 years before ever leaving for Mars. So if they can’t get along they don’t go together.

I am already planning what will be in my application video/letter.
I am quite serious about wanting to go myself, and am about 90% sure I will apply as soon as possible. I look forward even to the training and exercise—it would be nice to get back into shape.


L. Spiro
[/quote]
Good luck Spiro! Sounds like a harsh but cool experience, not for me but I can see why it would be attractive to many people :)
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[quote name='L. Spiro' timestamp='1354582761' post='5006874']
There will only be 4 people at first and they will be carefully chosen based on their social dynamics. They will be put together for 3 months at a time in the desert every 2 years and undergo many other group tests for 10 years before ever leaving for Mars. So if they can’t get along they don’t go together.

I am already planning what will be in my application video/letter.
I am quite serious about wanting to go myself, and am about 90% sure I will apply as soon as possible. I look forward even to the training and exercise—it would be nice to get back into shape.


L. Spiro
[/quote]
If you go, you HAVE to make at least one post here at GameDev from Mars. Good luck!
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My list of things to accomplish here on Earth is so big I don't have a life span big enough to go to Mars yet.
Even by visiting a lot of countries and places I can't feel that it is ever enough. I want to really explore Earth, every little bit of it, just like an outsider for the first time.

Maybe on a next life I explore Mars [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]

EDIT: A MUST have thing in your backpacks will be board games. I know everyone loves them, and by playing it, you guys will have some real fun and will get know each other much better. Check out the [url="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4F80C7D2DC8D9B6C&feature=plcp"]TableTop[/url] show on youtube. Until 2023 you will have a big list of board/card games. ;) Edited by kuramayoko10
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I could see myself signing up to become a colonist on Mars, if the program backing it was sound.

First requirement that would have to be met would be a sane design to the whole program, with a community of at least 100 people in the first few years settling.

The project should not plan on requiring more than communications support after a year or two at most. Each step of the project should be focused on establishing a self-sufficient colony providing its own needs and a decent surplus of food, water, and energy, as well as creating the resources needed for the next phase of expansion. Why ship stuff from earth when we can make it right there from local materials? (This is the key, if you can't survive locally, then you're not really making a colony, you're merely a research outpost.)

The colonists need to have some control over their internal government, and immigration. Before additional colonists would be accepted, they would need to be cleared with previously settled colonial government. Having some government a hundred million km away tell you what you are doing will not sit well with the majority of humans I believe. Some sense of control must be retained.

But yeah, I would work as a labourer role, miner, mechanic, technician, etc, to help build a whole new world for humans to live in, a whole new society where we can start from scratch locally and address many issues of inequality and poor planning that hinder existing societies that were born long before many of the problems they would face were dreamed of. (Of course, it won't be perfect. It will have flaws, but hopefully we can learn from such.)
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I'd love to go if it looked like [b]Rivendelle[/b]. Or set adrift in a starship for [b]Alpha Centauri B[/b] where that super earth is.* We'd have to have kids and watch them grow so they would enjoy the arrival.

*Edit*
Oh good god. It's 4.3 light years (25.6 trillion miles) away. [i]Dreams dashed[/i]. Might have to settle on something closer. [i]Ugh.[/i] Edited by Kridian
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[quote name='L. Spiro' timestamp='1354494405' post='5006451']
Would you take a 1-way trip to Mars?
[url="http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/want-one-way-ticket-mars-dutch-company-looking-012824434.html"]http://news.yahoo.co...-012824434.html[/url]
As for myself, I am ready to go.
[/quote]

I think you should wait until these milestones have been met:

1. First person to land on Mars.
2. First person to return from Mars.
3. First person to die on Mars.
4. First person to commit suicide on Mars.
5. First person to commit murder on Mars.

Then, it will be like home sweet home. Edited by megabaki
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Not if i could never come back. I live in Toronto and i have no problem moving some where else on the planet. Living in space if it was Suppose to happen God would of put man on other planets too.
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I wonder nobody sees the fallacy. The main selling point is that it's comparatively "cheap" due to that kind of lottery they do. Seeing how there is no trip home planned... tell me what does the price matter at all? For any "no way to return" trip which is not a con, they could ask any amount of money they want.

People would not mind giving [i]all [/i]their money, because there is no returning home, and the money is worth nothing on Mars.
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[quote name='samoth' timestamp='1354739932' post='5007510']
I wonder nobody sees the fallacy. The main selling point is that it's comparatively "cheap" due to that kind of lottery they do. Seeing how there is no trip home planned... tell me what does the price matter at all? For any "no way to return" trip which is not a con, they could ask any amount of money they want.

People would not mind giving [i]all [/i]their money, because there is no returning home, and the money is worth nothing on Mars.
[/quote]

Get a lawyer to read the contract. Let's hope he speaks Dutch.
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[quote name='samoth' timestamp='1354739932' post='5007510']
I wonder nobody sees the fallacy. The main selling point is that it's comparatively "cheap" due to that kind of lottery they do. Seeing how there is no trip home planned... tell me what does the price matter at all? For any "no way to return" trip which is not a con, they could ask any amount of money they want.

People would not mind giving [i]all [/i]their money, because there is no returning home, and the money is worth nothing on Mars.
[/quote] I think most would leave all of their money to their loved ones.
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