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Revs

How hard is it to make a game if… ?

32 posts in this topic

.. I have no experience but I'm just putting already existing stuff together?

I'm wanting to make my own game but I actually don't have any experience at all (this probably sounds familiar to you).

However, in my case, my plan was that I'd only use stuff that already exists. Say I need a city, and some highways, and some vehicles: You can find all of it online. I'd like to start with the map, and I do have some 3D skills (studied architecture so we had to design houses and stuff).

Basically I'd like to just take stuff and put it all together. I don't plan on selling this, it's just for fun.

I have checked out Unity and I was hoping to put everything together in there. It's meant to be a driving game by the way.


So… am I dreaming? I don't know any language (well except web languages but they won't be of any help) and I surely won't give up my social life to learn another language now. I don't want this as a job anyway and I'm not interesting in the gaming industry. This is really just for pure fun (maybe that's the problem).

I was thinking maybe a team or something would be more ideal. I don't want to start this and then years later find out I'm not even near to my goal and having wasted all that time on it. Would be a shame!

Tell me your thoughts people :)


Greets


[b]Edit //[/b] I know that it's hard to make a game, but let me rephrase this whole post. I know that it's difficult if you want something unique, that means if you're doing everything yourself from scratch. Say if you design the buildings and cars and streets all yourself. Nobody else will have the same house, the same bridge or whatever else in their game. Only you. But how hard is it these days to make a game with already existing stuff? Just if you'd mash up everything together? Also I forgot to mention, it's meant to be 3D. I always forget those flash games etc., but they're games too after all. Edited by Revs
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Creating games is very difficult. The art/design portion of the game is not what makes game development so hard (maybe I shouldn't say that as some art/design people might get mad at me), but what I mean to say is that just using existing 3D models will not all of a sudden create your game. You need a way for those 3D Models to interact with each other. Think about how objects in the real world interact with each other. How does it work? What to they do? A computer doesn't have any knowledge of this so we have to tell them this object does this, reacts like this.

Their are Engines that would make it easier. Though it is hard. It's not a job that you can just walk into and start doing one day. You could use Unity though it'd still require some coding skills to get what you want more than likely. You could learn what the basics of what Unity wants for coding since your not interested in this as a profession you could "ignore" some aspects of the code though that'd just made it even harder because when your code does get a bug it'd be very hard to fix it because you don't know all the details of it.

Their are some 2D Point and Click options though. Game Maker is one of them.

EDIT: Let me say this-It's difficult even if you don't want unique looking objects. It'll still be just as hard to get where you are. I don't know of any 3D Point and Click options that just allow you create your game in 3D. Maybe someone else will. Though let me say, even creating a game like this can be difficult. Edited by Chad Smith
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Creating a game doesn't need any graphics at all. It can exist with no visuals in itself and the gameplay will be exactly the same. The only problem, we LOVE to see things happen, moving, things blowing up. So to make games appealing to the public and what makes them buy it is they need something aesthetically pleasing to look at, along with good gameplay.

I could make a 2D shoot using only cubes, but how is that fun to look at? The gameplay works perfectly fine, collision handle works, shooting a box out of a box would be the player. Enemies would be boxes. This IS a created game and works perfectly, assuming it does, then the game is complete without any crazy graphics. The question is, who would buy it or play it? Probably no one, so then you start putting in detailed graphics, like an actually player model (i.e human model), enemies would have some distinction so you know they are enemies, and bullets when shooting at things. Then people are more inclined to play it because the visual are better then all cube graphics. Edited by Cdrandin
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Go on, learn by doing it. Open Unity and follow the tutorials from the site and join the IRC channel if you have serious doubts. Start simple and keep adding stuff as you improve.
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[quote name='Luis Guimaraes' timestamp='1355514635' post='5010715']
Go on, learn by doing it. Open Unity and follow the tutorials from the site and join the IRC channel if you have serious doubts. Start simple and keep adding stuff as you improve.
[/quote]
Exactly what I am doing, but I have a lot more experience in programming, but never used an engine before. Got pong working and from that I play on turning it into breakout once finals are done with that is.
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My recommendation is to think it through. If you are interested in all aspects of developing a game then it may be benificial. Understand that if you really have a passion, it will require tremendous amounts of time and effort to become proficient. ANYTHING is possible and where there is a will there is a way. If you plan on learning programming, BUY BOOKS and Read them. Good luck!
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Try to make tetris or pong first, then work your way up from there. Even unity requires some scripting knowledge, and it is best to start simple whenever tackling something complex like programming.
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Hey, thanks for all the answers so far.


[quote name='J. Evola's Apprentice' timestamp='1355509778' post='5010694']
With your knowledge and attitude, it is infinitely hard.
[/quote]

I see I offended a few people there [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img] [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img] But sorry (wasn't my intention)

[quote name='6677' timestamp='1355510467' post='5010698']
[quote name='Revs' timestamp='1355507996' post='5010682']web languages but they won't be of any help
[/quote]

HTML5 + javascript are beginning to appear here and there for game development now thanks to canvas elements.
[/quote]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!


[quote name='Chad Smith' timestamp='1355510533' post='5010699']
Creating games is very difficult. The art/design portion of the game is not what makes game development so hard (maybe I shouldn't say that as some art/design people might get mad at me), but what I mean to say is that just using existing 3D models will not all of a sudden create your game. You need a way for those 3D Models to interact with each other. Think about how objects in the real world interact with each other. How does it work? What to they do? A computer doesn't have any knowledge of this so we have to tell them this object does this, reacts like this.

Their are Engines that would make it easier. Though it is hard. It's not a job that you can just walk into and start doing one day. You could use Unity though it'd still require some coding skills to get what you want more than likely. You could learn what the basics of what Unity wants for coding since your not interested in this as a profession you could "ignore" some aspects of the code though that'd just made it even harder because when your code does get a bug it'd be very hard to fix it because you don't know all the details of it.

Their are some 2D Point and Click options though. Game Maker is one of them.

EDIT: Let me say this-It's difficult even if you don't want unique looking objects. It'll still be just as hard to get where you are. I don't know of any 3D Point and Click options that just allow you create your game in 3D. Maybe someone else will. Though let me say, even creating a game like this can be difficult.
[/quote]

I am aware that the design is not the primary function of a game. Actually I was intending to use something like the Blender vehicle3 simulation, here's a video:

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5agTcTn_aoI"]https://www.youtube....h?v=5agTcTn_aoI[/url]

This video isn't by me but basically you get to download the exact same thing (except that the Audi hasn't got any textures on it). The car however feels to light to my liking, while it's in the air it should fall down quicker. I mean, a car is quite heavy after all. Also, I would increase the attack on the steering; it's too brutal. I guess that's the kind of things where some coding would be necessary.

But it's not like I have to configure the whole thing.

By the way, I never *really* learnt PHP, I only "learnt" it because I used scripts — already-made scripts. With the time I learnt how to modify them. But if you'd ask me to type a whole thing myself, I most likely wouldn't know. But I can still create you a homepage with CMS including tons of features in less than a day. I was kind of hoping it would be like that. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]

I've also seen some tutorials on Blender on how to make a static car drivable (I mean, making it like the car in the video — with suspension, turning wheels, etc. etc.), however I never tried it personally. The video is very short (10 minutes I'd say) so again, I thought it wouldn't be that hard if you follow exact instructions.


[quote name='Cdrandin' timestamp='1355512189' post='5010705']
Creating a game doesn't need any graphics at all. It can exist with no visuals in itself and the gameplay will be exactly the same. The only problem, we LOVE to see things happen, moving, things blowing up. So to make games appealing to the public and what makes them buy it is they need something aesthetically pleasing to look at, along with good gameplay.

I could make a 2D shoot using only cubes, but how is that fun to look at? The gameplay works perfectly fine, collision handle works, shooting a box out of a box would be the player. Enemies would be boxes. This IS a created game and works perfectly, assuming it does, then the game is complete without any crazy graphics. The question is, who would buy it or play it? Probably no one, so then you start putting in detailed graphics, like an actually player model (i.e human model), enemies would have some distinction so you know they are enemies, and bullets when shooting at things. Then people are more inclined to play it because the visual are better then all cube graphics.
[/quote]

Yeah I agree with what you're saying there. But I'd still buy that game with boxes shooting each other, that sounds quite fun actually [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img] Hmm maybe I should start with this?

[quote name='MAD UNICORN GAMES' timestamp='1355520938' post='5010745']
My recommendation is to think it through. If you are interested in all aspects of developing a game then it may be benificial. Understand that if you really have a passion, it will require tremendous amounts of time and effort to become proficient. ANYTHING is possible and where there is a will there is a way. If you plan on learning programming, BUY BOOKS and Read them. Good luck!
[/quote]

Well, that's the problem, I have a lot of passions. But I'm trying to make them happen as quickly as possible, I want to try out a lot of things, and I want to create a lot of different stuff. Who wants to look back on life one day and only have achieved something in a single field? Change is what makes life exciting [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img] But I must agree, that you are right with what you said. That's also the reason why I'm not planning to do everything from scratch, I'm really trying to make it the simplest and easiest possible. Basically I'm just wanting a game the way I would like it to be. And compared to what's out there, what I want seems pretty simple to me. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img] (I know — it isn't)

[quote name='minibutmany' timestamp='1355521824' post='5010751']
Try to make tetris or pong first, then work your way up from there. Even unity requires some scripting knowledge, and it is best to start simple whenever tackling something complex like programming.
[/quote]

Let's see, maybe there's some tutorials on there ;) Perhaps I could make a game for my iPhone, I definitely wouldn't mind a self-made Tetris hehe [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png[/img]


So far, thanks again to everyone for your replies.
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I believe it is more of a 2D application/engine, but I saw something on construct 2 the other day. It uses HTML5 and according to what I read, you do not need any progamming knowledge to use it. You simply take objects that you find around your computer, place them on the screen, click into the menus and tell the items what they should do, and then you have a game.

I have no experience with construct. I simply looked it up after a friend told me about it. I haven't looked into it any further for several reasons, but that's not real important. It does however, seem to be very close to what you are looking for.
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Just checked it out and it seems to be Windows only — sadly! I forgot to mention I'm on Mac actually ;)

But I found it funny that you can create games for iPhone with this app, but only from a Windows system, haha.

It sure does sound very simple (and fun!), now someone needs to make such a thing for 3D games [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]
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[quote name='Revs' timestamp='1355507996' post='5010682']
(studied architecture so we had to design houses and stuff).
[/quote]

So you know that no matter how hard you work at designing something on paper it never suddenly springs into being as a duplex complete with middle class families playing catch together on the front lawn.

Game creation is the same. You can't just throw assets into a folder and shake the computer until Ridge Racer X drops out the back. You have to implement every last design detail. The machine needs to know exactly what to do in every possible situation in your game simulation. This takes a significant amount of time and effort.

I do appreciate that you're actually asking about it instead of doing what most people do - just assuming that programming is the nerd-elite's version of [i]Duplo Blocks For Fun And Profit[/i]. This is full on engineering and construction with all that such things entail. Just because there's no heavy lifting involved doesn't mean it's easy.
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Well yes, I kind of was aware of that ;)

But hey — on our first day of architecture we designed a complete church, that was not bad! We just got a lot of instructions and that's how it went really easy then.
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[size=5][sup]Revs,[/sup]

[sup]Simple and solid advice I give you here. There is no need for me to write anything to discourage or warn you about various pitfalls, so I won't.[/sup]

[sup]There are ways to create games with no coding by you. Many 2D and a few 3D games will allow you to make very nice games by using existing and customizable assets. I like Yahoo Advanced Search for seeking this kind of information by using "the exact phrase". I would type "no programming needed" after "game" and see what appears.[/sup]

[sup]Blender sounds like it could be the perfect match for you, since you can make a game using published maps and other assets. It allows you to add physics, animations, and lighting effects into your game, among other things. Later you can learn Python to do some coding or modify existing code. Read the Blender license, of course. [/sup]

[sup]I highly recommend collaborating with one or more game makers. There are thousands of 2D and 3D objects to be placed in various games. Also there are plug-ins for physics, sounds, device input, and others. Some of them require no coding.[/sup]

[sup]Find a way! Be encouraged! Get working! Have fun! [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img] [/sup]

[sup]Clinton[/sup][/size] Edited by 3Ddreamer
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Thanks! Very encouraging post *thumbs up* [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/happy.png[/img]
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[quote name='Revs' timestamp='1355527670' post='5010775']
[quote name='J. Evola's Apprentice' timestamp='1355509778' post='5010694']
With your knowledge and attitude, it is infinitely hard.
[/quote]

I see I offended a few people there [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img] [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img] But sorry (wasn't my intention)
[/quote]

I don't think anyone has been offended. It was just an honest reality check.
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Game design should be viewed as an art form. How much dedication do you have to it? What purposes does it serve to your own interests? You can find open source art work all over the internet but if you have an artistic integrity to be original and to strive for professionalism you will want to make everything from scratch and with your own hands. There are people who are satisfied with using things that make it easy but those people either owe royalties to someone or their just being lazy.
Unity has an event based scripting language which is simpler than learning a whole programming language (Most of which are not designed for games but have to be built upon and modified to support development of games) Professionals use C and C++. Hands down its the most powerful language and is most commonly used by any popular title that has ever hit it big. In the old days it was the X80/86 assembly language which is a tad more difficult than C (Which gives you more access to the actual assembly and processor) Atari up to the Genesis and beyond have used the assembly language.
So If you want to do the whole thing by yourself it will be very difficult but its possible if you have a genuine appreciation for the art form otherwise youre probably going to want to focus on a specific field of game design (graphics, coding, design etc...)
I agree with 3D dreamer on blender, its almost as powerful as the other renderer's but its a little more difficult to achieve the level of realism other programs offer, but it's free so thats a plus. it uses Python but thats only relative to thigns you develop in it once exported into another engine (I suggest .FBX format) everyone is using it still.
sorry abotu the jumbling and bad grammar I've been drinking :) LOL
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IM focusing on learning the rest of C++ and the major API's (OPEN_GL, SMFL, DIRECTX ,SDL, ETC..) then once i feel confidetn in my skills I will move into an engine then eventually design my own
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I meant to say it only relative to things developed in blender, models will need to be expoted into the engine for proper animation (Unless it supports python)
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[quote name='6677' timestamp='1355510467' post='5010698']
[quote name='Revs' timestamp='1355507996' post='5010682']
web languages but they won't be of any help
[/quote]
HTML5 + javascript are beginning to appear here and there for game development now thanks to canvas elements.
[/quote]
Actually, while they are, as of now, a good choice, the second part of your post is wrong. The canvas element makes no sense to use for games. In fact, it'd be stupid. It'd be far slower than using actual images, and you have to draw everything on it. And even if canvas elements were somehow used for games, they'd be far slower than just loading images like normal. You'd use canvas for drawing shapes in real-time, and a normal image for anything game related.
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[quote name='spiralseven' timestamp='1355535982' post='5010809']
IM focusing on learning the rest of C++ and the major API's (OPEN_GL, SMFL, DIRECTX ,SDL, ETC..) then once i feel confidetn in my skills I will move into an engine then eventually design my own
[/quote]

Crucial flaw here:
[quote]and the major API's (OPEN_GL, SMFL, DIRECTX ,SDL, ETC..)[/quote]
Pick one API. And even if you tried to learn them all, it'd probably take you at-least two years (Probably 3-4 if you learned them correctly). And they don't work together anyway, so you'd just pick one and use it, all the other one's would be pointless. Also, you'd move on to an engine? Those are engines. Moving on to an "engine" is stupid. You already can program in those, why do you need an engine? That's the point of learning those API's. Now, designing your own. You still could only use one API, and that would come after at least 1 (Probably 2) years of game programming.

Sorry for sounding like someone who's trying to stomp on your dream. However, it'd be better to:
1. Solidify Your Knowledge of C++(11)
2. Learn an API
3. Make some knockoff games (Pong, Breakout, Tetris, Space Invaders, etc.) in that API.
4. Make your own game.
5. Make some more games.
6. Make your first game that you sell.
7. Repeat with a new language, standard, or API :)! (I'm currently on my second rotation, however I made a big switch: Web Design!) Edited by superman3275
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[quote name='Revs' timestamp='1355527670' post='5010775']
I am aware that the design is not the primary function of a game. Actually I was intending to use something like the Blender vehicle3 simulation, here's a video:

https://www.youtube....h?v=5agTcTn_aoI

This video isn't by me but basically you get to download the exact same thing (except that the Audi hasn't got any textures on it). The car however feels to light to my liking, while it's in the air it should fall down quicker. I mean, a car is quite heavy after all. Also, I would increase the attack on the steering; it's too brutal. I guess that's the kind of things where some coding would be necessary.

But it's not like I have to configure the whole thing.

By the way, I never *really* learnt PHP, I only "learnt" it because I used scripts — already-made scripts. With the time I learnt how to modify them. But if you'd ask me to type a whole thing myself, I most likely wouldn't know. But I can still create you a homepage with CMS including tons of features in less than a day. I was kind of hoping it would be like that.

I've also seen some tutorials on Blender on how to make a static car drivable (I mean, making it like the car in the video — with suspension, turning wheels, etc. etc.), however I never tried it personally. The video is very short (10 minutes I'd say) so again, I thought it wouldn't be that hard if you follow exact instructions.
[/quote]

I just wanted to say that I was not trying to say you can not do it. I am sorry if I came across that way. I just wanted to let you know that games still take a long time to create even if you used prior art.

The Blender 3D Game Engine sounds great for you if you can learn it. I have seen some basic games made for it. You should try it out! I wish you the best of luck with it!
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I think starting in Unity is a bad idea, or any game engine.

It seems like you want results, but that's not how it works. You HAVE to learn to program and learning from an engine isn't a good idea. You will not gain any worthwhile skills copying code and gameplay will suffer directly from this. What is stopping you from opening a book? Learning the actual fundamentals? Learning to 3D model?

This is not YOUR game if you continue, it will be a collection of other's ideas and hard work you hashed together. I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, but this is gamedev.net and your current path will not make you a game developer.
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