quote:Original post by granat No motivation problems at all at any time ? If yes what did you do about it. I know 2 Gfx guys. We live in the same town a few minutes from each other. I have a hard time trying to motivate them.
Most of the motivational problems came with getting started. After that, having something to show for the work we had done was a huge help in keeping going.
I had worked out the artwork specification prior to finding an artist, so when we found Lars we just gave him the list. After a bit of experimenting to get the look we wanted, he tackled the list in (more or less) the order I told him.
I think it''s important that you know what you want done *before* you go looking for team members. That way you know what you need done, and they know what''s expected of them. They can see the workload upfront, and you''ll find out pretty quick if they''re someone you really want to work with. This applies to artists, sound effect engineers, and even programmers.
It''s much harder, I think, to build a team and then go looking for a project. You''ll have more problems with motivation and direction.
to DavidRM... I belive you are completely right about this...
QUOTE: "I think it''s important that you know what you want done *before* you go looking for team members. That way you know what you need done, and they know what''s expected of them. "
I am in the planning part of a game project, I don''t know if it will ever become a game, and as I see it, planning how to make the game is more or less making the game.
Often, gamedevelopers look at the game industry as if the industry was completely different from all other industries, it''s not. Making a game is basically the same procedure as making a car or some other product. All products has some kind of producer, all producers must have a plan. If a project is to successful, and GUARANTEED to be sucessful, you need to follow standard producing proceedures. This of course doesn''t mean that the game will be a best seller, but the game will be finished.
Back to the subject of Game Funding. If I was to give money to someone that wanted to make a game, the basic prerequisites would be that they 1. have a plan 2. have a good producer 3. would know exactly how the project would be managed. 4. have a very good game idea. 5. have some experience.
This means that I would never give myself any money.
What I want to say with this post is that many game developers seem to think that the game industry is diffrent from other industries, it is not and never will be. If you claim that a game can be created in diffrent ways than other software - you are wrong and you will never get any funds.
Hmmm.... I guess this post may upset some people, if so, I''m sorry, also note that I have no experience to base my opinions on.......
//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I'm looking for work
JOL---your right to some extant but the gaming industry is hard to break into---its not that a small company can't--but is who you know and the hardest part of the business is the ability to market your product (as you said it is very similiar to other businesses). The only thing that makes it hard is the compatition---Its very similiar to the music industry. I have been in music for close to 3 years now and have managed and promoted some of the worlds finist DJ's . And believe me it actually harder to make it in the game business than in the music business. The compatition is overwhelming, everyone has a game that they want published but without the proper know how or connections no one is going to look at them. Currently is been a year since I started Infinity Entertainment and the core members have stayed the same since. We work well together plus we really don't have group meetings---mostly is someone has a problem they take to me if I can't figure something out then I get the other members invovled. This works well because it does not disrupt the others from there duties plus it still keeps everyone interested. Currently our first project is going well the engine is nearly complete and the graphics and sound are nearly done. The one thing I had before the start of the company though is the storyline and some cinimatics which really helped on getting the point across that this is going to be a great game. You really need something to keep the group going motivationally. I keep in touch with most of the group members day to day and also tell them to e-mail me if I don't talk to them everyday so I can keep them in tune with the rest of the group.
David you are complete correct! Surprisingly enough its hard to find people that see eye to eye on these posts.
Maheedhar Sonthineni Infinity Entertainment
If anyone whats any more info e-mail me at bishop@infinityes.cjb.net
I think the tendency in the industry has always been for publishers to only give out contract work to developers with a proven track record. From concept to alpha demo is already a big step and in your case it''s even more difficult to receive funding. Contract work is guaranteed funding, but you are hired to build a game according to more or less exact specifications. No creative freedom to speak of. Valusoft and eGames are known to do something like this. Valusoft take a well known concept and have a team do a similar title. The days of contracting out work are over for eGames but I know for a fact that they had developers do Arcade games on order at one time.
With your project the difficulty lies in the fact that nobody knows your team, nor any previous projects you might have completed. If you had this on your resume it would be a bit easier, but still not a piece of cake. You need a playable demo to show to publishers in order to get funding. Not concept art, a design document or some other planning tool, but something tangible. I know you request funding in order to make a demo in the first place but it''s virtually impossible to get anyone to back that in the drawing board stages. Now once you have scrambled to complete a demo it''s still difficult. You need to have produced something which is revolutionary in terms of features, or a completely new game concept. The phrase "I''m doing a 3-D First Person Shooter" doesn''t get anyone excited, nor do any of the other stale genres. You need something unique to sway a publisher in backing a project. And in the end you need a bit of luck to make the last few yards to a deal.
Now you either knew all of this or you''ve found out the hard way by now, but fact is that none of the big publishers are going to even take a look at a project from a newby developer. EA even ask developers to put down a guarantee that the game will sell. If you do not make a target then you owe them another game. For free! Considering another line of work now?
I''m afraid Alex is correct with what he said. Publishers really want to see that all that money they are paying out will not go to waste, so a track record or top-draw demo is needed.
That''s not to say it''s all bad, with a lot of these big publishers your first point of contact will be with someone who knows and understands more about the games than they do about business. This is so they can tell the good from the crap. If you manage to put on a good showing to this person, they go to the moneymen and see if a deal is worthwhile for them.
So you do have some help from within the publishers, but ultimately it has to be worth their while to even look at your work.
Your points have been well received and I pretty much agree with them. I can concur from my own experience that this is, indeed, the way the business presently works. Whenever trying to figure out how to pitch the proposal to a publisher I first try to think of what I would want to see before offering someone a sum of $200,000. I consider it to be a sizable investment and something not to be taken lightly (even in this particular industry where its the norm). Unfortunately, if you ask for a relatively small sum (like $50,000 or less), they seem even less likely to consider your work as they figure you a) have no idea what you''re talking about, b) are so cheap that whatever you do it will be of poor quality.
Now if one chooses to approach multiple investors in the manner of a start-up business rather than a publishing deal $25,000 or $50,000 is somewhat reasonable and expected. The problem with that is that you have to promise them returns and try to imagine what kind of returns you, as a business entity, would want to see (probably 150%+).
In regards to myself, I''m planning to try to develop a fully functional demo (then its just a matter of plugging in content) and then I''ll approach a publisher. I still cannot help but consider the possibility of approaching investors for smaller sums just to set up an office for a year for development prior to approaching a publisher, but that would eat away at our earnings (which the publisher will already do plenty of!).
Self-publishing is another possibility I''ve considered and I''ve made the contacts in manufacturing and distribution to do it, but having the advertising and marketing know-how is rather important for the console industry (which is what I''m hoping to break into). And, of course, a good distributor (one who can get you good shelf-space at major chains) is rather expensive still.
I''d like to continue to hear everyone''s thoughts on this. Its interesting and helps to keep my brain churning ideas. I especially liked the idea of approaching other industry businesses and selling them on the idea of pack-ins. I think 2-3 pack-in slips is an excellent way to make extra capital without overly annoying the end-consumer (too many pack-ins is just bad PR). Another thing to consider is approaching investors, as I mentioned before, for funding a studio for a year and basically making up the royalty loss (that would be used to pay the investors) with extra money earned from the pack-ins.
It says on your homepage (SamuGames) that Paintball.net was taken offline because the costs involved with keeping the game going was getting larger than the income (correct me if I'm wrong).
The reason for this must be that even if new people pay for the game there's still all the "old" players to service. The have already paid a one-time payment and now they use up valuable bandwidth for years without paying anymore.
Yet still Artifact is based on one-time payments, which will mean that you might have to take it offline in a few years.
Have you ever considered that people should pay a small amount of money each year instead ?
This way the cost would not get larger than the income.
Have you ever thought of lowering the price of playing Artifact say 50% ? Maybe that way you could more than double the number of players (and income) ? But who knows right ?
When Paintball was taken offline did any of the players get angry and did they want their money back or something like that. Do people often complain?
I belive that most people tend to be hung up on fundings. You can not compete with a game like Quake by making a similar game. The people behind quake has got A LOT of money, they put together a team of specialists that will outperform anything that you can come up with. On the other hand, what you have as an advantage, is that you can make high risk ventures with very low fundings. You can take advantage of volounter work. You can get actors, writers, artists, singers, guitarists, videofilming and a whole lot more for free. There are many schools out there with a lot of talented people that will be more than happy to work with you for free, actually not for free but for experience and it also looks good in their CV.
So, don''t try to make a quake VII, you will not succeed. Try something else, like a videobased boardgame or something, with real actors and real sound - you might not like to play it, but what if all women between age 50 and 70 loves it and HAS to buy it - that''s some cash in the register.
Maybe that wouldn''t be as cool and fun as making a quake clone, but you might get enough money to do that as game no 2.
Become a sellout.....
//~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I'm looking for work
Doing a low budget game dosent have to mean a sellout. I spent much more time playing bridge builder than i did the daikatana demo. Good games can be made for little money by small teams. Nobody wants to hear this, they all like talking about tens of thousands of pounds as a minimum, but its true. You CAN make money from a small game!
