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rpiller

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If the starting money is simply for buying land and other start up things, why not un-tradable deeds that can be redeemed only for property at or under a certain amount. Then that specific property can not be sold, only abandoned. The same thing with other supplies. That can help reduce the amount of starting money at least. 

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@wintertime Hunger and Thirst are the immediate needs yes. The time period of these needs are critical to the economy. If they are too slow then the food market becomes meaningless (and it's a big part of the game). As a side note this doesn't mean players spend all their time eating & drinking. It's more like, have food in your inventory and it'll be automatically taken out at a given time rate depending on activity (decently fast so as to require players to care and make a thriving food market).

 

Treasure hunting isn't really the name of the game, it's more of a nice surprise and a way to have the government put the money it gets from land sales back into the economy, and they would also run into need issues if they went hunting right away.

 

Even if I give them land at first, without money there is none to be made. There are no NPC's. Money doesn't come out of thin air like in other MMORPG's. Somebody has to have money in order for them to buy goods from someone. The goal & design of 0 NPC's means players have to have the money.

 

The only other way to explore would be to give players enough food & water to last so many playing hours and then after that they are given the money they would normally get at the start. This way people have to play the character for so long before they get any money. This means at the very start of a new server there is no money at all. I would have to think about the affect of this and how players could still interact while in this stage. I don't want to give government land because then it's a set size and I want variety in the game, but without giving them this they would have no land. You can only gather resources if you have land. I wonder if the first x amount of players could get money when they start to get things going, but then new players would have to do the playable hours to get money. I feel like that might not be fair. 

 

 

 

 

If the starting money is simply for buying land and other start up things

 

The money exists to be in circulation for the economy. What people do with it is up to them. Someone could make apartments so that some players can meet their shelter need cheaper than buying land and spend their money on other things. The money just needs to exist to keep the economy going round and round. Each player can only do so much for so many needs and will have to buy the other things for their other needs. So you farm corn and take some and sell the rest so you can buy meat. That person that bought from you had a cattle ranch and took some meat and sold the rest to buy corn from you, and round and round we go. Money is needed for all of this as trade is just to hard and players won't accept it for an extended period of time just as in our society we picked currency over trading goods.

Edited by rpiller
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@sunandshadow The main point of the game is to be 100% player driven. There are no NPC's outside of animals. So because there are no NPC's there is "no money out of thin" air concept that most MMORPG's have. It's meant to be a zero sum game where the starting money each player gets * the number of players is all the money in circulation on that server.

Okay, but, why do the players even want money then?  Why would I accept it as currency from another player (instead of demanding some kind of goods as a barter) if I can't turn around and spend it somewhere?

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Okay, but, why do the players even want money then?  Why would I accept it as currency from another player (instead of demanding some kind of goods as a barter) if I can't turn around and spend it somewhere?

 

?? You can spend it anywhere you like, as long as you aren't clearly pooling it with other characters. That and you don't have any other choice. Goods can only be bought/sold with money. There is no trading of goods, only goods for money. Players can't give goods to each other in any way but a "contract" that says these goods for this amount of money, OR via a marketplace which is the same thing but an automatic "contract" that doesn't require players making manually. The player contract way is sort of a pain so it'll speed up the development of people making marketplaces to make buying/selling easier.

 

Making a "contract" manually isn't hard, but you have to seek people out that have what you want and then negotiate a price. That's a pain, and it's just easier for sellers to put up goods on a marketplace and buyers to search and buy there. The manual way would be to get near another player, and right click them and select Buy Goods or Sell Goods, which opens up the dialog where you or them can put money and the other puts the goods. There is no way to trade goods directly. The game doesn't allow it. That's why money is important.

Edited by rpiller
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I didnt say you have to have all people not have those food needs, just newly created ones for the starting time. For example when you know a starting player would normally need 1 hour of playtime to gather enough gold to start paying its normal needs continuously you can give them a bit more leeway like 2 hours where the normal timers start ticking, their youthful power wears off so they begin getting hungry and their "nontradable new player slowproducing any type of use tool" falls apart and they from then on need to buy their pickaxe, hammer, whatever normally from the market.
That also helps starting off the very first players on your server when theres that chicken-egg-problem that noone can produce anything cause noone sells anything. Edited by wintertime
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I would just add something like a compound daily tax on trades.

 

If the trades are small enough and not that frequent, which is how I'm guessing real trade will be handled, it should just seem like another level to the complexity of your game; like its more realistic.

 

For larger and more frequent trades, those taxes will add up, forcing the multi-account holders to have less revenue than they could and in turn holding them back from steam-rolling the games legit players.

 

Boom.

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Okay, but, why do the players even want money then?  Why would I accept it as currency from another player (instead of demanding some kind of goods as a barter) if I can't turn around and spend it somewhere?

 

?? You can spend it anywhere you like, as long as you aren't clearly pooling it with other characters. That and you don't have any other choice. Goods can only be bought/sold with money. There is no trading of goods, only goods for money. Players can't give goods to each other in any way but a "contract" that says these goods for this amount of money, OR via a marketplace which is the same thing but an automatic "contract" that doesn't require players making manually. The player contract way is sort of a pain so it'll speed up the development of people making marketplaces to make buying/selling easier.

 

Making a "contract" manually isn't hard, but you have to seek people out that have what you want and then negotiate a price. That's a pain, and it's just easier for sellers to put up goods on a marketplace and buyers to search and buy there. The manual way would be to get near another player, and right click them and select Buy Goods or Sell Goods, which opens up the dialog where you or them can put money and the other puts the goods. There is no way to trade goods directly. The game doesn't allow it. That's why money is important.

Ahh, no 2-sided trading, gotcha.  It's been a long time since I played a game that didn't have a trading interface where both players could add both items and money (or no player-to-player trading at all) so I forgot about that possibility.  It will be interesting to see how that works - whether people who have been playing longer tend to hoard currency to force the value up, or whether new players tend to spend their currency then have great difficulty getting it back, or whether new players tend to end up working for a wage for older players, or what.

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 It will be interesting to see how that works - whether people who have been playing longer tend to hoard currency to force the value up, or whether new players tend to spend their currency then have great difficulty getting it back, or whether new players tend to end up working for a wage for older players, or what.

 

This is why I'm making this game. I feel it'll be a fun game to be a business owner and build a virtual world with other players given these "laws" and see how it turns out. It could go horribly wrong lol, but that's 1/2 the fun I think. People could be talking about living through the great depression of 2016 in this game smile.png I would allow players to write stories/books for others to read so history of the game can be recorded. I can even make major events holidays. I want lots of fan interactivity in the progress of the game. New patches will provide new inventions that make lives easier and even possible change the market around for resources that were once not as important! I want players to vote on what new craftable things they would like.

 

 

@Dave, that tax idea is interesting. I could tax both large and many transactions in a short time span with the same players to a point where it doesn't become worth it. This would promote diversity and smaller transactions. I would have to just balance it to make sure it doesn't become a problem. The buyer would pay the tax. I think this combined with watching for cheaters would help minimize a player from steamrolling like you say.

Edited by rpiller
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