• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Michael Tanczos

Looking to kill IOTD as it currently exists.. Need testers

31 posts in this topic

I agree with Cornstalks about the Your Announcements section.  To be blunt, it seems kind of lame at the moment.  I think it'd be better if it was like the Classifieds, with its own form you fill out to post it, instead of just posting it as a regular thread.  The form could have some common fields in it, like the game name, genre, description, technology used to make it, etc.

 

Then you could put in a comments section, where the viewers can talk about the project with the developer(s) of the project.  I also agree with Cornstalks about differentiating between updates and replies.  Updates should be closer to the content, and more "out in the open" compared to replies, so it's easier to see the progress the project is making.

 

[quote name='jwezorek' timestamp='1358541081' post='5022976']
Also I'd like to bring up -- although I don't have a solution -- is that I think one of the reasons people don't submit more images to IOTD is that some of the images are so good that people feel as though the bar is set too high for them.
[/quote]

I agree.  I have some projects going now and I'm much more open to posting screenshots of them to #screenshotsaturday than I am to the IOTD, because they don't seem "worthy" of the IOTD.

 

IMO, instead of merging the GD.net community with the #screenshotsaturday community, you should make the IOTD more accessible and out in the open.  Encourage people posting their works-in-progress, even if they're rough and messy.  I think I'd be more comfortable if there were more images in the IOTD and they were displayed next to each other.

 

Maybe a system where everyone can put up "projects", and then they share screenshots/images relating to those projects.  When someone clicks on one of those images in the IOTD section (or GameDev Showcase, whatever you're calling it now), it takes them to the project page, with a description of the project and a comments section, and shows them the picture in a slideshow with all of that project's other pictures.  Whenever a project posts a new picture, it gets bumped closer to the top of the list.

 

Right now, it just seems like it's not focusing enough on the iterative process of game development.  People are just posting awesome pictures once every few weeks, after everything looks nice and impressive.  I'd like it more if it was more like a journal thing, where you posted your progress updates and stuff, not just how everything turned out after like 6 months/2 years of working on it.  A stream of updates.

 

I don't know, though...both my vision of Your Announcements and my vision of IOTD sound very similar, don't they? lol

 

Anyway, hopefully this makes sense.

 

P.S.: I think we should allow +1s in Comments, Suggestions, and Ideas, and then move this thread there

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with Cornstalks about the Your Announcements section.  To be blunt, it seems kind of lame at the moment.  I think it'd be better if it was like the Classifieds, with its own form you fill out to post it, instead of just posting it as a regular thread.  The form could have some common fields in it, like the game name, genre, description, technology used to make it, etc.

 

Then you could put in a comments section, where the viewers can talk about the project with the developer(s) of the project.  I also agree with Cornstalks about differentiating between updates and replies.  Updates should be closer to the content, and more "out in the open" compared to replies, so it's easier to see the progress the project is making.

 

I disagree with the bolded part (but I don't mind the template/form part to help people know what to post) - personally, I feel the "thread" approach is much conducive to conversation and dialog than the "comments" approach. With today's modern internet culture of blog posts, rapid news articles, and twitter feeds, I personally feel like "comments" are rather 'fire and forget'. I leave a comment and walk away, because the news article will get pushed down by a dozen more within 24 hours, the twitter feed will move on, and the blog post carries "author authority" (the author is falsely seen to be the cool/sauve expert, simply because he wrote the blog post, and the comments are the tiny uneducated people trying to argue against 'established convention' (i.e. the "it's in print" blog post)).

 

Forum-threads on the other hand, feel like they can be safely discussed for weeks (because each post brings the thread back to the surface, and makes the discussion still 'active'), spurring more investment in higher-quality and longer posts (I'm never going to write a 'comment' that's longer than a paragraph - I'm happy to write a thread post that's 10 paragraphs), and more flexibility in discussion (comments feel like they need to follow the 'original topic' of the article they are discussing - like a conversation in a classroom that a teacher keeps 'on-topic', threads are real discussions that change direction and flow where the participates find interesting), and a greater sense of 'this is being archived for future readers' instead of 'this is being archived as something that will be considered outdated when next encountered'.

 

It's a major psychological difference that I've noticed in myself that makes me almost always prefer threads over comments except where they most make sense: on blogs. I feel like news articles, tutorials, and announcements should really all say "discuss in [this thread]", not "discuss in the comments below" - because the comments don't really permit real discussion, only one-off comments and the occasional comment-to-a-comment.

 

Does anyone else have the same psychological response to threads vs comments?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with Cornstalks about the Your Announcements section.  To be blunt, it seems kind of lame at the moment.  I think it'd be better if it was like the Classifieds, with its own form you fill out to post it, instead of just posting it as a regular thread.  The form could have some common fields in it, like the game name, genre, description, technology used to make it, etc.

 

Then you could put in a comments section, where the viewers can talk about the project with the developer(s) of the project.  I also agree with Cornstalks about differentiating between updates and replies.  Updates should be closer to the content, and more "out in the open" compared to replies, so it's easier to see the progress the project is making.

 

I disagree with the bolded part (but I don't mind the template/form part to help people know what to post) - personally, I feel the "thread" approach is much conducive to conversation and dialog than the "comments" approach. With today's modern internet culture of blog posts, rapid news articles, and twitter feeds, I personally feel like "comments" are rather 'fire and forget'. I leave a comment and walk away, because the news article will get pushed down by a dozen more within 24 hours, the twitter feed will move on, and the blog post carries "author authority" (the author is falsely seen to be the cool/sauve expert, simply because he wrote the blog post, and the comments are the tiny uneducated people trying to argue against 'established convention' (i.e. the "it's in print" blog post)).

 

Forum-threads on the other hand, feel like they can be safely discussed for weeks (because each post brings the thread back to the surface, and makes the discussion still 'active'), spurring more investment in higher-quality and longer posts (I'm never going to write a 'comment' that's longer than a paragraph - I'm happy to write a thread post that's 10 paragraphs), and more flexibility in discussion (comments feel like they need to follow the 'original topic' of the article they are discussing - like a conversation in a classroom that a teacher keeps 'on-topic', threads are real discussions that change direction and flow where the participates find interesting), and a greater sense of 'this is being archived for future readers' instead of 'this is being archived as something that will be considered outdated when next encountered'.

 

It's a major psychological difference that I've noticed in myself that makes me almost always prefer threads over comments except where they most make sense: on blogs. I feel like news articles, tutorials, and announcements should really all say "discuss in [this thread]", not "discuss in the comments below" - because the comments don't really permit real discussion, only one-off comments and the occasional comment-to-a-comment.

 

Does anyone else have the same psychological response to threads vs comments?

 

That makes sense to me.  :)

 

When I said "comments section" I meant pretty much the same as a thread reply section.  It'd still show up in "Your Content" and you'd still get alerted to other replies if you "watch" it (...or whatever "watching" even does).

The only difference would be the layout of the thread: it'd be spruced up to be specially tuned for projects, and would display like a thread with some extra features.  For example, a slideshow of screenshots and concept art, a list of future goals, and whatever else seems like it might be handy (maybe you could even let people decide which of these features to include in their post?).  It'd still be replied to like a thread.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know... I like regular IOTD. Isn't there some way of fixing it up or promoting it more?

The problem though is that the submission rate isn't there with our IOTD.. It's hard to compare 200+ screenshots per week of games in development versus the 1-2 we get per week.And the submissions we do get include a lot of commercial middleware rather than just regular joes making games.  Clearly something isn't working.

 

Maybe we should split off a separate thread for this, but...

 

Can we quantify exactly what isn't working? i don't know that jumping outside of our immediate community is a great solution - to my mind, half the appeal of the old IOTD was seeing work from people that you interacted with on a daily basis.

 

A number of flaws with the current IOTD system (versus the old one) seem very apparent to me:

  • The new IOTD is almost invisible on the front page. Why can't we make it big, bold, bright?
  • The new IOTD doesn't send comment notifications, so we can't hold conversations there.
  • If you reach the new IOTD-as-forum-thread page, you can't see the actual images!
  • The new IOTD layout sucks - 90% of it is empty space (especially if there is only one image).
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='swiftcoder' timestamp='1358802801' post='5024036']
A number of flaws with the current IOTD system (versus the old one) seem very apparent to me:
The new IOTD is almost invisible on the front page. Why can't we make it big, bold, bright?
The new IOTD doesn't send comment notifications, so we can't hold conversations there.
If you reach the new IOTD-as-forum-thread page, you can't see the actual images!
The new IOTD layout sucks - 90% of it is empty space (especially if there is only one image).
[/quote]

Just wanted to say that I agree with all of this, and that personally I would prefer to try to encourage further posts from within our community rather than out-sourcing from a twitter feed.

 

I'm not opposed to the concept of the showdown game -- it's a pretty cool idea actually -- but like some others have mentioned, I'd rather try to encourage image submissions from within our community.

 

 

I think we really need to clean up the interface of IOTD, and reduce the barriers towards posting a new image as much as possible.  At the moment the UI for submission isn't friendly or intuitive at all, and that's probably putting off some users.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and add this:

If you posted an IOTD and later exchange the images (I wanted to exchange for higher resolution) the IOTD display is broken (red cross). You can't get the new images to show at all.

 

See my Soulless entry for this particular problem.

Edited by Endurion
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0