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Looking to kill IOTD as it currently exists.. Need testers

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I agree with Cornstalks about the Your Announcements section.  To be blunt, it seems kind of lame at the moment.  I think it'd be better if it was like the Classifieds, with its own form you fill out to post it, instead of just posting it as a regular thread.  The form could have some common fields in it, like the game name, genre, description, technology used to make it, etc.

 

Then you could put in a comments section, where the viewers can talk about the project with the developer(s) of the project.  I also agree with Cornstalks about differentiating between updates and replies.  Updates should be closer to the content, and more "out in the open" compared to replies, so it's easier to see the progress the project is making.

 

[quote name='jwezorek' timestamp='1358541081' post='5022976']
Also I'd like to bring up -- although I don't have a solution -- is that I think one of the reasons people don't submit more images to IOTD is that some of the images are so good that people feel as though the bar is set too high for them.
[/quote]

I agree.  I have some projects going now and I'm much more open to posting screenshots of them to #screenshotsaturday than I am to the IOTD, because they don't seem "worthy" of the IOTD.

 

IMO, instead of merging the GD.net community with the #screenshotsaturday community, you should make the IOTD more accessible and out in the open.  Encourage people posting their works-in-progress, even if they're rough and messy.  I think I'd be more comfortable if there were more images in the IOTD and they were displayed next to each other.

 

Maybe a system where everyone can put up "projects", and then they share screenshots/images relating to those projects.  When someone clicks on one of those images in the IOTD section (or GameDev Showcase, whatever you're calling it now), it takes them to the project page, with a description of the project and a comments section, and shows them the picture in a slideshow with all of that project's other pictures.  Whenever a project posts a new picture, it gets bumped closer to the top of the list.

 

Right now, it just seems like it's not focusing enough on the iterative process of game development.  People are just posting awesome pictures once every few weeks, after everything looks nice and impressive.  I'd like it more if it was more like a journal thing, where you posted your progress updates and stuff, not just how everything turned out after like 6 months/2 years of working on it.  A stream of updates.

 

I don't know, though...both my vision of Your Announcements and my vision of IOTD sound very similar, don't they? lol

 

Anyway, hopefully this makes sense.

 

P.S.: I think we should allow +1s in Comments, Suggestions, and Ideas, and then move this thread there

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I agree with Cornstalks about the Your Announcements section.  To be blunt, it seems kind of lame at the moment.  I think it'd be better if it was like the Classifieds, with its own form you fill out to post it, instead of just posting it as a regular thread.  The form could have some common fields in it, like the game name, genre, description, technology used to make it, etc.

 

Then you could put in a comments section, where the viewers can talk about the project with the developer(s) of the project.  I also agree with Cornstalks about differentiating between updates and replies.  Updates should be closer to the content, and more "out in the open" compared to replies, so it's easier to see the progress the project is making.

 

I disagree with the bolded part (but I don't mind the template/form part to help people know what to post) - personally, I feel the "thread" approach is much conducive to conversation and dialog than the "comments" approach. With today's modern internet culture of blog posts, rapid news articles, and twitter feeds, I personally feel like "comments" are rather 'fire and forget'. I leave a comment and walk away, because the news article will get pushed down by a dozen more within 24 hours, the twitter feed will move on, and the blog post carries "author authority" (the author is falsely seen to be the cool/sauve expert, simply because he wrote the blog post, and the comments are the tiny uneducated people trying to argue against 'established convention' (i.e. the "it's in print" blog post)).

 

Forum-threads on the other hand, feel like they can be safely discussed for weeks (because each post brings the thread back to the surface, and makes the discussion still 'active'), spurring more investment in higher-quality and longer posts (I'm never going to write a 'comment' that's longer than a paragraph - I'm happy to write a thread post that's 10 paragraphs), and more flexibility in discussion (comments feel like they need to follow the 'original topic' of the article they are discussing - like a conversation in a classroom that a teacher keeps 'on-topic', threads are real discussions that change direction and flow where the participates find interesting), and a greater sense of 'this is being archived for future readers' instead of 'this is being archived as something that will be considered outdated when next encountered'.

 

It's a major psychological difference that I've noticed in myself that makes me almost always prefer threads over comments except where they most make sense: on blogs. I feel like news articles, tutorials, and announcements should really all say "discuss in [this thread]", not "discuss in the comments below" - because the comments don't really permit real discussion, only one-off comments and the occasional comment-to-a-comment.

 

Does anyone else have the same psychological response to threads vs comments?

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I agree with Cornstalks about the Your Announcements section.  To be blunt, it seems kind of lame at the moment.  I think it'd be better if it was like the Classifieds, with its own form you fill out to post it, instead of just posting it as a regular thread.  The form could have some common fields in it, like the game name, genre, description, technology used to make it, etc.

 

Then you could put in a comments section, where the viewers can talk about the project with the developer(s) of the project.  I also agree with Cornstalks about differentiating between updates and replies.  Updates should be closer to the content, and more "out in the open" compared to replies, so it's easier to see the progress the project is making.

 

I disagree with the bolded part (but I don't mind the template/form part to help people know what to post) - personally, I feel the "thread" approach is much conducive to conversation and dialog than the "comments" approach. With today's modern internet culture of blog posts, rapid news articles, and twitter feeds, I personally feel like "comments" are rather 'fire and forget'. I leave a comment and walk away, because the news article will get pushed down by a dozen more within 24 hours, the twitter feed will move on, and the blog post carries "author authority" (the author is falsely seen to be the cool/sauve expert, simply because he wrote the blog post, and the comments are the tiny uneducated people trying to argue against 'established convention' (i.e. the "it's in print" blog post)).

 

Forum-threads on the other hand, feel like they can be safely discussed for weeks (because each post brings the thread back to the surface, and makes the discussion still 'active'), spurring more investment in higher-quality and longer posts (I'm never going to write a 'comment' that's longer than a paragraph - I'm happy to write a thread post that's 10 paragraphs), and more flexibility in discussion (comments feel like they need to follow the 'original topic' of the article they are discussing - like a conversation in a classroom that a teacher keeps 'on-topic', threads are real discussions that change direction and flow where the participates find interesting), and a greater sense of 'this is being archived for future readers' instead of 'this is being archived as something that will be considered outdated when next encountered'.

 

It's a major psychological difference that I've noticed in myself that makes me almost always prefer threads over comments except where they most make sense: on blogs. I feel like news articles, tutorials, and announcements should really all say "discuss in [this thread]", not "discuss in the comments below" - because the comments don't really permit real discussion, only one-off comments and the occasional comment-to-a-comment.

 

Does anyone else have the same psychological response to threads vs comments?

 

That makes sense to me.  :)

 

When I said "comments section" I meant pretty much the same as a thread reply section.  It'd still show up in "Your Content" and you'd still get alerted to other replies if you "watch" it (...or whatever "watching" even does).

The only difference would be the layout of the thread: it'd be spruced up to be specially tuned for projects, and would display like a thread with some extra features.  For example, a slideshow of screenshots and concept art, a list of future goals, and whatever else seems like it might be handy (maybe you could even let people decide which of these features to include in their post?).  It'd still be replied to like a thread.

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I don't know... I like regular IOTD. Isn't there some way of fixing it up or promoting it more?

The problem though is that the submission rate isn't there with our IOTD.. It's hard to compare 200+ screenshots per week of games in development versus the 1-2 we get per week.And the submissions we do get include a lot of commercial middleware rather than just regular joes making games.  Clearly something isn't working.

 

Maybe we should split off a separate thread for this, but...

 

Can we quantify exactly what isn't working? i don't know that jumping outside of our immediate community is a great solution - to my mind, half the appeal of the old IOTD was seeing work from people that you interacted with on a daily basis.

 

A number of flaws with the current IOTD system (versus the old one) seem very apparent to me:

  • The new IOTD is almost invisible on the front page. Why can't we make it big, bold, bright?
  • The new IOTD doesn't send comment notifications, so we can't hold conversations there.
  • If you reach the new IOTD-as-forum-thread page, you can't see the actual images!
  • The new IOTD layout sucks - 90% of it is empty space (especially if there is only one image).

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[quote name='swiftcoder' timestamp='1358802801' post='5024036']
A number of flaws with the current IOTD system (versus the old one) seem very apparent to me:
The new IOTD is almost invisible on the front page. Why can't we make it big, bold, bright?
The new IOTD doesn't send comment notifications, so we can't hold conversations there.
If you reach the new IOTD-as-forum-thread page, you can't see the actual images!
The new IOTD layout sucks - 90% of it is empty space (especially if there is only one image).
[/quote]

Just wanted to say that I agree with all of this, and that personally I would prefer to try to encourage further posts from within our community rather than out-sourcing from a twitter feed.

 

I'm not opposed to the concept of the showdown game -- it's a pretty cool idea actually -- but like some others have mentioned, I'd rather try to encourage image submissions from within our community.

 

 

I think we really need to clean up the interface of IOTD, and reduce the barriers towards posting a new image as much as possible.  At the moment the UI for submission isn't friendly or intuitive at all, and that's probably putting off some users.

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Oh, and add this:

If you posted an IOTD and later exchange the images (I wanted to exchange for higher resolution) the IOTD display is broken (red cross). You can't get the new images to show at all.

 

See my Soulless entry for this particular problem.

Edited by Endurion

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