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Leikaru

Kingdom Empires - A Game Idea

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Leikaru    118

Kingdom Empires

Rule Your Nation the Way You Want It To

 
Welcome to this thread. First of all, I just want to say this is an idea. Not a game in development. If it was, then I would tell you. Anyway, there are no screenshots, but I take it you can read. As well as that, if you have any suggestions, I'd be quite happy to look at them. Also, if you have any questions, feel free to ask them.
 
What Is Kingdom Empires?
 
Kingdom Empires is a game where you can gather resources in your world to build the kingdom of your dreams. You can build villages, mines, and Wood-Chopping Areas (the name is currently out of my head), but it all costs something. At first, all you have is 200 Wood, which is just enough to build a Wood-Chopping Area. Then, with the gold you have (1000 at first), you must hire workers, who wish to be paid for their duties. They give you wood. Once you have 500 wood, you can build a Crafting Area, where you can build equipment. You then decide to build them axes, which enables you to chop the wood faster. Then, you can build Mines, Farms, and once you have all the resources, you can finally build your first building, in just under 10 minutes. Fortunately, that's just in time before night falls. Which means, you have just enough time to persuade somebody to buy the house. You choose the price of the house. From 100 Gold, to 1,000,000 Gold, it's completely up to you. However, the lower the price, the more interest their is, so if this is your first house, why not make it a cheap 250 gold? Somebody will have interest straight away. You've got someone settled in? Good. That means you know at least one family will survive the night. It's a simple game; gather resources, build equipment, build buildings. Really, it's not too hard. However, sometimes, Monsters attack Villages, or even another Nation. Yes, another neighboring nation may invade you, and then you have to defend yourselves, with as many guards as you want. Then, it's up to your guards.

 

Features

 

  • Gather Resources; loads of ores and resources to find, smelt and use!
  • Make up laws for your nation, and find the people that break the laws.
  • Different Races. At the start of the game, you can choose a race, between Human, Elf, Lizardman, Catman or Troll. Depending on the race, you can have different laws.
  • Rivalry System between Empires: Anger another Empire, you become rivals, and therefore, you have more of a chance of being invaded. Same goes for the other way around.

More Coming Soon. Sorry it isn't very detailed, but the game is still just an idea.

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PyrZern    310

So, as an idea, what sets this apart from other similar titles? Also, mind you, others are already on the markets.

Also, when you mention the part about persuading somebody to move in; are you talking about NPCs, or other players ?

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Leikaru    118

Basically, you gather many, many, many, many (insert 20 more many's here) resources contstantly. For example, you have over 35 ores to find, which each have a special feature, as well as a normal feature. I know there are similar titles on the market, but I think this will be a free to play game.

 

It also actually depends on what game mode you are on. If you are on single player, npc's move in, however, in Multiplayer, the leader of the server is the empire, and so, you  have more features on the multiplayer, such as Mining or Wood Chopping yourself, and moving in to a house.

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kseh    3838

What I wonder is whether it might be too frustrating for the player to choose actions that aren't your planned path for success. Even if it's easy for the player to do the things you say, what if he chooses to go a completely different direction? Maybe you should consider ensuring there are multiple paths for success, that it isn't too frustrating to fail, or if the game is meant to be more strict or to follow only a few possible paths that you guide the player sufficiently.

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Leikaru    118

You can't really "fail", unless you lose all your land, and then, you can just basically become a friend of an Empire, and then, once your well enough known, you can just have that as your empire. You can choose many different directions, however, at the start you might feel a little bit "told" what to do. After that, you can do what you like.

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PyrZern    310

So, why would someone wants to be the peasants in someone's else empire ?

Most likely, there will be bunch of empires made of 1 player each, and no one else in it.

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hpdvs2    1017

After reading the main post, and the sub posts, here are my initial comments.  

 

1) Your intro paragraph is long, and doesn't give us any idea why we would play your game, instead of the many others like it, already out there, as PyrZern brought up:

 

o, as an idea, what sets this apart from other similar titles? Also, mind you, others are already on the markets.

 

 

Really, this is an absolute vital.  unless you have the resources to compete against the more sizable releases, you should be focusing on what makes your game special, not white noise.

 

2) your starting paragraph is to vague.  It sounds like white noise.  you spent a lot of detail on things that are similar to other games, but little time on the list that actually separates things out.  as an example, I'll start with resources, something you spelled out vaguely in your at the top.

 

Gather Resources; loads of ores and resources to find, smelt and use!

 

 

There are reasons games limit them selves to just a few resources to gather.

 

Basically, you gather many, many, many, many (insert 20 more many's here) resources constantly (spelling fix here, please use spell check)

 

 

While I'm not opposed to a game that has more resources in use, find me a popular game that has 8 or more resources.  I've seen them, but I've never seen them do well.  While it can be done, you shouldn't be saying "lots of resources".  you should be telling us how that will be fun.  Just because its there doesn't make it interesting.  more often it makes it challenging on the design to keep the product entertaining.  Again, tell us what will make more minerals, more fun.  Often its easy to get distracted thinning that we can make an existing game or genre better by just adding more.  Adding more should NEVER be your guiding principal, but instead, focus on what makes it more fun.

 

 

Make up laws for your nation, and find the people that break the laws.

 

This part sounds like it could be its own game all together.  And it doesn't imply much about how it works.  the game is essentially a city builder with wars.  usually with these, you are not managing things at a 1 person level, but at what would affect thousands or at least hundred of people (not individuals).

So essentially you've introduced an idea that doesn't naturally lend it self to the game your talking about.  You need to clarify this out more.

 

What is the premis of makign up laws?  How does it work?  Are you presented with laws, and say yes or no?  If there are law breakers, and you 'find' them, what is involved in that, is it like an FPS here?  do you see them run through a street in your game?  do you set up bounties?  is this another real player or an NPC?  

 

A City Builder game is typically focused on the grand scheme of things, keeping large numbers of people happy, and yet it sounds like your game steps outside of that to chase down a bad guy.  

 

 

 

I hope you don't take any of this as an offense, its meant as serious questions you need to think through.

 

The general ideas are, 1) you've focused your description on the things that make it the same as hundred of other games out there, change it to focus on what makes it different, what makes it better.  2) for the areas that are different, it doesn't feel like you've thought through how much one single sentence now adds huge amounts of unclear work later.  If you introduce an idea that goes against the nature of the game you just described, you really need to explain how it will work, and particularly why it will be fun, and how you will bring that out.

Edited by hpdvs2

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MilchoPenchev    1178
While I'm not opposed to a game that has more resources in use, find me a popular game that has 8 or more resources. 

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but this line got me thinking about something else. A game that has 8 or more resources to use, though not in the RTS/citybuild genre would be minecraft. There materials can be used for different things - like wooden sword, metal sword, gold sword, diamond sword (even if it don't make IRL sense...) 

 

But why not put in that sort of depth in a RTS like game? Normally you build one type of unit - continuing with the sword example - a swordman. You can sometimes purchase upgrades on units in certain games, to add to random stats, but why not make it so that you can produce swordsmen with different type of equipment based on which resource you want? 

 

That way having Copper and Tin mine you could make Bronze Swordsmen, then iron, and perhaps add things like a smeltry that can produce custom alloys between metals (this would have to be very well defined properties merging system - i.e. 20% iron + 80% carbon should yield a low damage sword, while a 80% iron 20% carbon should yield a stronger alloy). And then select to make swordsmen with the custom alloys you build. This can apply to anything that uses materials really - building strengths, unit armors, cropfield effectiveness (via what material plows are build from)... and probably other things i can't think of right now.

 

I know this sounds much more relevant to a rpg (this idea came from stuff I thougth about a while back on a rpg i wanted to make), but there's no reason why you can't introduce that in a more intricate and detailed RTS/city builing game. 

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hpdvs2    1017

[quote name='Milcho' timestamp='1358168637' post='5021377']
A game that has 8 or more resources to use, though not in the RTS/citybuild genre would be minecraft.
[/quote]

 

I was at first surprised you found something on that, however, the entire game is focused around the reuse of those materials.  In a city builder/tech tree game, the materials are only supportive to the political, tech tree and construction needs.  I.e.  You don't really care about the materials, you care about what you do with them.  For instance needing the materials to build with, or enhancing your ability to get these materials.  But you already will have so many other things for the player to apply strategies to.  In mine craft, there really isn't any political use to the materials you have.  You are building for 1 usually.  (Cities, in Minecraft  are typically built and discarded.  People don't tend to play to get a house someone else built.  The play to build the house them selves)

 

However, I would offer this advice.  I believe you can use more materials, successfully  but don't make the player need to focus on them.  just make your general mining structures/skills cover all the materials at once.  or upgrade them as the come.  

 

For instance, focus on the need for wood, stone, and iron.  In the background, you have a stock pile of other materials, and you can click on your mining facilities for stocks on other materials.  Typically they should do just fine.  However, once you advance past a particular point, and start building certain things, you get notices about running low on "tin" or "copper" or "copper chloride hydroxide, AKA atacamite", and by clicking on the material type, you can see what types of things it gets used by, and what is the biggest hog.  

 

Then you can offer the player advances in extracting better quantities, offer advances in requiring less of this material, or offer advances in finding mining sites with higher amounts of this material.  But then once you have that underway, the player can essentially ignore it again.  You can still offer the option for the player to go to detail levels on the additional materials and research improvements for them, but the player doesn't need to unless something goes wrong.  

 

You can include uncommon materials in a trading system by not including it as a common board.  but a player who is low and needs more, can request it.  Then the server can look for online players who have a growing supply (increasing faster than they can use it) who have at least twice as much as the request, and offer that player X amount for selling it, with details saying they have plenty in reserve.  Even let the player higher an "advisor" (ai) in the game who will auto sell in certain circumstances.  

 

The key thing is that the games that use large amounts of materials are typically singularly focused on one player alone.  Like Rune Scape or other material mining/smelting/working games.  Even though those have LOTS of players, all details focus on 1 player at a time, as far as most players are concerned.  trading tends to be far more adhoc in those games.  

 

Since your game starts on the political side of managing a city, I would recommend that in general, you don't make the players nit pick over dozens of materials, but just ones that are boldly needed to allow the player to use other 'fun; mechanics in the game.

 

While I say all this, I have also wanted a game like this, but have never found large amounts of materials fun to play in a large scale game.  I'd love to see it be done, but I don't believe the 'fun' of a strategy game (like a city builder) comes out with massive material types.  PLEASE prove me wrong.  I'd like to see this work.  

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hpdvs2    1017

[quote name='Milcho' timestamp='1358168637' post='5021377']
while a 80% iron 20% carbon should yield a stronger alloy
[/quote]

 

You'll need to work on your numbers, steel is typically 95% iron and about 0.5% carbon and the rest fillers of other metals to help with other issues, like protecting from rust or oxidation, keeping an edge, making stronger, etc...

 

but that goes back to my previous post.  Carbon is cheap, easy to get, and used in such small quantities, that you really wouldn't notice.  It seems more like a feature upgrade, that you could focus on improving alloys, and express to the user which direction you are going in.  but ultimately, it is a minor part of the game.  

 

Perhaps you could still do this, but essentially just upgrade your mining stations to extract the new materials you need, but when very little is required, it should receive the same amount of attention.

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MilchoPenchev    1178



while a 80% iron 20% carbon should yield a stronger alloy


You'll need to work on your numbers, steel is typically 95% iron and about 0.5% carbon and the rest fillers of other metals to help with other issues, like protecting from rust or oxidation, keeping an edge, making stronger, etc...

Yeah, I'm not a blacksmith, I have some knowledge of alloys due to my experience in chemistry, but not that much, Besides, I'm writing more as an example of what can be done, not necessarily to use the exact numbers I posted in your (Leikaru's) game.

but that goes back to my previous post. Carbon is cheap, easy to get, and used in such small quantities, that you really wouldn't notice. It seems more like a feature upgrade, that you could focus on improving alloys, and express to the user which direction you are going in. but ultimately, it is a minor part of the game.

Perhaps you could still do this, but essentially just upgrade your mining stations to extract the new materials you need, but when very little is required, it should receive the same amount of attention.

You do make a good point - some common things, like carbon, should not be resources, I don't think I quite suggested that.

This can be done in a different way btw - not in terms of making some counter of supplies go up on your screen.
It's not quite the same, but in the Settlers VI (the only one i've really played out of the series) you had a lot of 'resources' (not just minerals) to gather.
There was wood, stone, iron, deer, honey, milk, fish, wool, wheat (that's 9 of them btw smile.png ) - which then got transformed on a one to one basis (by npcs moving back and forth) into secondary resources - sausage, smoked fish, soap, brooms, swords, mead, bread, banners, and a few others i think that I can't remember.

All of these resources were produced by individual houses rather than just having them gathered or transformed (by a baker, smoker, sausage maker, broom maker) etc.

It was more of a city building game than a RTS in a sense, and it did focus on resource management probably above all else. It had a very simplistic military in some ways.

Well, anyway, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, just giving another example of how lots of resources was done. I'm not actually trying to build one of these games, btw... just found this interesting.

By OP's (Leikaru's) description, I'm not sure if what he meant is at all similar to what I described, because as you said, his description is very vague.

 

Edit: By the way, I don't know why the Civilization series wasn't the first one that came to mind when you said ''more than 8 resources". While in Civ 4/5 they are not mandatory for victory, they are certainly very useful for both military and trade. Also, if you've ever played Empire Earth II - it has Food, Wood, Gold and Stone, and while not necessary during all other epoch, there's also tin, saltpeter, iron, oil and Uranium. 

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Leikaru    118

 





while a 80% iron 20% carbon should yield a stronger alloy

You'll need to work on your numbers, steel is typically 95% iron and about 0.5% carbon and the rest fillers of other metals to help with other issues, like protecting from rust or oxidation, keeping an edge, making stronger, etc...

 

Yeah, I'm not a blacksmith, I have some knowledge of alloys due to my experience in chemistry, but not that much, Besides, I'm writing more as an example of what can be done, not necessarily to use the exact numbers I posted in your (Leikaru's) game.

but that goes back to my previous post. Carbon is cheap, easy to get, and used in such small quantities, that you really wouldn't notice. It seems more like a feature upgrade, that you could focus on improving alloys, and express to the user which direction you are going in. but ultimately, it is a minor part of the game.

Perhaps you could still do this, but essentially just upgrade your mining stations to extract the new materials you need, but when very little is required, it should receive the same amount of attention.

You do make a good point - some common things, like carbon, should not be resources, I don't think I quite suggested that.

This can be done in a different way btw - not in terms of making some counter of supplies go up on your screen.
It's not quite the same, but in the Settlers VI (the only one i've really played out of the series) you had a lot of 'resources' (not just minerals) to gather.
There was wood, stone, iron, deer, honey, milk, fish, wool, wheat (that's 9 of them btw smile.png ) - which then got transformed on a one to one basis (by npcs moving back and forth) into secondary resources - sausage, smoked fish, soap, brooms, swords, mead, bread, banners, and a few others i think that I can't remember.

All of these resources were produced by individual houses rather than just having them gathered or transformed (by a baker, smoker, sausage maker, broom maker) etc.

It was more of a city building game than a RTS in a sense, and it did focus on resource management probably above all else. It had a very simplistic military in some ways.

Well, anyway, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, just giving another example of how lots of resources was done. I'm not actually trying to build one of these games, btw... just found this interesting.

By OP's (Leikaru's) description, I'm not sure if what he meant is at all similar to what I described, because as you said, his description is very vague.

Edit: By the way, I don't know why the Civilization series wasn't the first one that came to mind when you said ''more than 8 resources". While in Civ 4/5 they are not mandatory for victory, they are certainly very useful for both military and trade. Also, if you've ever played Empire Earth II - it has Food, Wood, Gold and Stone, and while not necessary during all other epoch, there's also tin, saltpeter, iron, oil and Uranium.

 

Right, so, I am going to add more of a description, but as an early idea, and not a developed game, I'm still working on all the full features of it. This game will have many, many resources, possibly over 300-500. Also, these days, quite a few games have more than 8 resources. I will be updating the post with far more details, and am currently making a Resource List, and an Equipment, Building and Monster List. The Resource List will be up in about a week.

 

Also, I would like to add that ores are the most important resource in the game. You have to find them, otherwise you aren't going to do very good.

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hpdvs2    1017
some common things, like carbon, should not be resources, I don't think I quite suggested that.

This can be done in a different way btw - not in terms of making some counter of supplies go up on your screen.
It's not quite the same, but in the Settlers VI (the only one i've really played out of the series) you had a lot of 'resources' (not just minerals) to gather.
There was wood, stone, iron, deer, honey, milk, fish, wool, wheat (that's 9 of them btw ) - which then got transformed on a one to one basis (by npcs moving back and forth) into secondary resources - sausage, smoked fish, soap, brooms, swords, mead, bread, banners, and a few others i think that I can't remember.

 

 

ok, so when your talking about resources, your not just talking about Iron, Wood, Stone, etc. but you are also including things like Swords, Armor, Bricks, etc...  Then that makes more sense to me.

 

So what I would ask next, relates to a point of confusion I have; how does "finding law breakers" play out in this game that seems already heavily focused on resources.  I'm not saying it can't be done, or can't be done well.  But this does seem two different directions for the game.  What did you have in mind for the game play mechanic of this, and does it tie into the resource management portion?

Edited by hpdvs2

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Leikaru    118

some common things, like carbon, should not be resources, I don't think I quite suggested that.

This can be done in a different way btw - not in terms of making some counter of supplies go up on your screen.
It's not quite the same, but in the Settlers VI (the only one i've really played out of the series) you had a lot of 'resources' (not just minerals) to gather.
There was wood, stone, iron, deer, honey, milk, fish, wool, wheat (that's 9 of them btw ) - which then got transformed on a one to one basis (by npcs moving back and forth) into secondary resources - sausage, smoked fish, soap, brooms, swords, mead, bread, banners, and a few others i think that I can't remember.

 

 

ok, so when your talking about resources, your not just talking about Iron, Wood, Stone, etc. but you are also including things like Swords, Armor, Bricks, etc...  Then that makes more sense to me.

 

So what I would ask next, relates to a point of confusion I have; resource management appears to be a strong component of this, but then you also mentioned "Make laws and find law breakers".  Presuming that making laws is more like getting the option to activate laws, how ever they are presented, how does "finding law breakers" play out in this game that seems already heavily focused on resources.  I'm not saying it can't be done, or can't be done well.  But this does seem two different directions.  What did you have in mind for the game play style of this?  how does this game mechanic work?

 

Actually, I don't. Y'see, Swords, Armour etc. actually count as equipment. This game is focused on ruling a successful empire. It is a completely unique game style, probably not done before. You use the laws wisely, then law-breakers can be caught by either yourself or guards. Basically, every so often, a person spawns, outside of view. When spawned, the code chooses a random value, which makes sure that one in one-hundred are criminals. You may think that's not a lot, but you may have a large kingdom of millions eventually. Trust me, it can be done. It's not too difficult, just implements laws. After all, if a kingdom doesn't have laws, then you might find a stripping man on the street the next day (you can actually make that illegal).

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hpdvs2    1017
This game is focused on ruling a successful empire. It is a completely unique game style, probably not done before. You use the laws wisely, then law-breakers can be caught by either yourself or guards. Basically, every so often, a person spawns, outside of view. When spawned, the code chooses a random value, which makes sure that one in one-hundred are criminals. You may think that's not a lot, but you may have a large kingdom of millions eventually. Trust me, it can be done. It's not too difficult, just implements laws. After all, if a kingdom doesn't have laws, then you might find a stripping man on the street the next day (you can actually make that illegal).
ok, so then this has the appearance of an MMO RPG, with thousands of NPC's running around in your city. and then, these characters would get additional animations for acts of crime. You see it happen, and then get the option to decree that illegal. Then the laws you make, and what people can and cannot do might affect resources as well. I.e. Carriages are racing through the street, accidents are happening, so you decree a law enforcing no horse galloping within city limits. But then perhaps you see issues where business starts to reduce because "rush" orders can't be made. occasionally someone will still go to a gallop in town, and it will be your job, along with guards you station to capture these criminals.

Let me know if I'm still off in this...

So my next question has to do with perspective of how you, the player, capture criminals. I would presume that the guards just capture and haul people in on occasion. but that for you, you would see it, and then what?

) you become a guard like character chasing after the criminal in a 3D foot race.
) similar, but more like a side scroller?
) simply have to click to capture, but the criminal weaves through a crowd making it tough, until they can get to a safe spot, like a sewer grate or gets out of the city.

How do you envision the mechanic of the game play for identifying and capturing the criminal? Edited by hpdvs2

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Leikaru    118

This game is focused on ruling a successful empire. It is a completely unique game style, probably not done before. You use the laws wisely, then law-breakers can be caught by either yourself or guards. Basically, every so often, a person spawns, outside of view. When spawned, the code chooses a random value, which makes sure that one in one-hundred are criminals. You may think that's not a lot, but you may have a large kingdom of millions eventually. Trust me, it can be done. It's not too difficult, just implements laws. After all, if a kingdom doesn't have laws, then you might find a stripping man on the street the next day (you can actually make that illegal).

 

 

ok, so then this has the appearance of an MMO RPG, with thousands of NPC's running around in your city.  and then, these characters would get additional animations for acts of crime.  You see it happen, and then get the option to decree that illegal.  Then the laws you make, and what people can and cannot do might affect resources as well.  I.e.  Carriages are racing through the street, accidents are happening, so you decree a law enforcing no horse galloping within city limits.  But then perhaps you see issues where business starts to reduce because "rush" orders can't be made.  occasionally someone will still go to a gallop in town, and it will be your job, along with guards you station to capture these criminals.  

 

Let me know if I'm still off in this...

 

So my next question has to do with perspective of how you, the player, capture criminals.  I would presume that the guards just capture and haul people in on occasion.  but that for you, you would see it, and then what?

 

) you become a guard like character chasing after the criminal in a 3D race.

) similar, but more like a side scroller?

) simply have to click to capture, but the criminal weaves through a crowd making it tough, until they can get to a safe spot, like a sewer grate or gets out of the city.

 

How do you envision the mechanic of the game play for identifying and capturing the criminal?

 

You have completely got the idea of this game wrong if you a comparing it to an MMORPG. This has Multi-Player, but requires a server. It's really quite simple to capture criminals. Once a criminal has been caught, a message box will pop up if you are near that location. The guard will tell you you have caught a criminal, and then you choose to either let him off, or imprison him. Sometimes, if they haven't commited an incredibly bad crime, such as ones that can't be changes, then you have the option to let them off, otherwise, it's to the jail with him.

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MilchoPenchev    1178
ok, so when your talking about resources, your not just talking about Iron, Wood, Stone, etc. but you are also including things like Swords, Armor, Bricks, etc...  Then that makes more sense to me.

 

So what I would ask next, relates to a point of confusion I have; how does "finding law breakers" play out in this game that seems already heavily focused on resources.  I'm not saying it can't be done, or can't be done well.  But this does seem two different directions for the game.  What did you have in mind for the game play mechanic of this, and does it tie into the resource management portion?

 

hpdvs2, I don't know if the original poster - Leikaru  - was talking about things besides basic stuff like iron wood and stone. You almost make that post sound like I was the one who had posted the original idea - I hope you know I was just expanding on this topic since it's mildly interesting, and I'm not really trying to reinterpret what Leikaru meant, since I also am not sure.

On that note, having 300-500 resources is just ridiculous in my opinion. Even Civ V had only around 30 I think, and I never ever could keep track of them.

 

To Leikrau - you really should give far more specific mechanics about how some of the things you described are supposed to work. This is what hpdvs2 was saying in the first place, and it's a good idea. I just jumped in cause I've played games with lots of resources :)

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Leikaru    118
ok, so when your talking about resources, your not just talking about Iron, Wood, Stone, etc. but you are also including things like Swords, Armor, Bricks, etc...  Then that makes more sense to me.

 

So what I would ask next, relates to a point of confusion I have; how does "finding law breakers" play out in this game that seems already heavily focused on resources.  I'm not saying it can't be done, or can't be done well.  But this does seem two different directions for the game.  What did you have in mind for the game play mechanic of this, and does it tie into the resource management portion?

 

hpdvs2, I don't know if the original poster - Leikaru  - was talking about things besides basic stuff like iron wood and stone. You almost make that post sound like I was the one who had posted the original idea - I hope you know I was just expanding on this topic since it's mildly interesting, and I'm not really trying to reinterpret what Leikaru meant, since I also am not sure.

On that note, having 300-500 resources is just ridiculous in my opinion. Even Civ V had only around 30 I think, and I never ever could keep track of them.

 

To Leikrau - you really should give far more specific mechanics about how some of the things you described are supposed to work. This is what hpdvs2 was saying in the first place, and it's a good idea. I just jumped in cause I've played games with lots of resources smile.png

 

You see, these kind of posts get on my nerves, At one point, they are on your side, the next minute, they call a part of your game "ridiculous". Listen, to you it may be ridiculous, but the versatility in this game is phenomenal. Trust me, if you can't keep track of 30, don't worry, the 300-500 resources is NOT ridiculous. It's just an idea you've never hear of.  Don't worry, I will give more details once I've finally decided how this game is going to work. Fully.

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hpdvs2    1017

[quote name='Leikaru' timestamp='1358183204' post='5021459']
You see, these kind of posts get on my nerves, At one point, they are on your side, the next minute, they call a part of your game "ridiculous".
[/quote]

 

I can understand that.  Word choices such as "ridiculous" is not very effective.  Despite that, Milcho made a good point in it.  He had trouble keeping track of 30 resources.  It doesn't mean everyone will, but as the resource management of large numbers seems to be the common theme of issues people bring up with your design, it certainly is something to keep in mind.  Ignore the ridiculous portions of the comments, but keep in mind the reality of what they are expressing.  Most of us see clear issues with mass resource management.  

 

Milcho's specific example was Civ V, and brought up that the resource management in that was tough.  It would be wise to review how theirs worked, and make sure you have an approach that might simplify it a bit.

 

This isn't meant to be rude, but don't post things if you don't want them critiqued.  People on your 'side' or not is not the point here.  By side, it sounds like your implying that we like it, despite issues we see with it.  Not all posts will be easy to take, but you should be posting here to find out if people have issues.  You don't need to listen to them, but in many cases it is wise to.

 

All that being said, from someone posting with limited explanation, you should ask for clarification about what made it difficult.

 

so @Milcho, what was difficult about Civ V's resource management?  And do you have any ideas as to what could make it easier.  specifics would be useful here.

 

Thanks.

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Leikaru    118

You see, these kind of posts get on my nerves, At one point, they are on your side, the next minute, they call a part of your game "ridiculous".

 

 

I can understand that.  Word choices such as "ridiculous" is not very effective.  Despite that, Milcho made a good point in it.  He had trouble keeping track of 30 resources.  It doesn't mean everyone will, but as the resource management of large numbers seems to be the common theme of issues people bring up with your design, it certainly is something to keep in mind.  Ignore the ridiculous portions of the comments, but keep in mind the reality of what they are expressing.  Most of us see clear issues with mass resource management.  

 

Milcho's specific example was Civ V, and brought up that the resource management in that was tough.  It would be wise to review how theirs worked, and make sure you have an approach that might simplify it a bit.

 

This isn't meant to be rude, but don't post things if you don't want them critiqued.  People on your 'side' or not is not the point here.  By side, it sounds like your implying that we like it, despite issues we see with it.  Not all posts will be easy to take, but you should be posting here to find out if people have issues.  You don't need to listen to them, but in many cases it is wise to.

 

All that being said, from someone posting with limited explanation, you should ask for clarification about what made it difficult.

 

so @Milcho, what was difficult about Civ V's resource management?  And do you have any ideas as to what could make it easier.  specifics would be useful here.

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I can take criticism, thank you very much, and I don't presume you like the idea of the game at all. Who would? I'm just making a point, if you don't like the idea of a game, then why post on it? It's not your game, so the maker won't make it a game for you. If they don't like the idea of several hundred resources, so be it, there won't be near that many on the first test, so you can get used to the critical resources, and then move on to the more advanced ones. Yes, you may see issues with it, it just takes a little part of the brain. It doesn't ask you to remember what they are at all, after all, you aren't mining it, the miners are. And you aren't chopping it, the Wood-cutters are. It's not too bad.

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MilchoPenchev    1178

Ok, my choice of words may have been poor, though you really took that too personally. I didn't call your game ridiculous, I just think that having 300-500 types of resources is going to be overwhelming. I would honestly think that anything above 50 or so would be out of hand for the majority of players, but again, and I don't want to repeat this every post, this is just my opinion.

 

 

Going by what hpdvs2 said - Civ V's diverse selection of resources were used for a lot of stuff. The resource view where I could see what resource was where was helpful, but unlike Civ 4 where you only had to have at least 1 resource of that type to produce units that needed it, Civ V required you to keep count of exactly how much you had. Leikaru, you didn't specify how your resources would work - the thing is with so much production going on, unit movements and city management, I just never could micromanage my resources in that game. Most of them were acquired automatically by automated workers, and I was often surprised of what I had. 

 

I honestly don't know how to improve it. Going with my experience of Settlers VI, while there were a lot of resources, you worked up to using them gradually - at first only caring about wood, stone and food. Then gradually as you advanced in title (the title of your knight, but it's just an advancement of your entire city) the needs of your citizens and the types of resources you had to gather increased. I guess the difference there is that I wasn't thrown into a world where there's a ton of stuff to manage at once, but instead was gradually introduced to new things I could do.

 

Again, since you say you're working on your idea, I don't know what your idea is. Based solely on you saying that you'll have 300 - 500 resources, I don't think there's a good way to make the learning curve easy enough. At best you'll be spending a lot of time introducing these resources and their function, and at worse, you'll just throw them at once at the user. 

This is also based on the fact that Civ V is probably the game with most resource management, and like I said, I never did get the hang of that completely. 

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Leikaru    118

You didn't call it ridiculous. That's funny, because that's what you posted. I didn't take it personally whatsoever, I just said that the kind of posts that base a game idea of a game that has actually been released it quite frustrating to me, because it put's me off making game ideas, because I think that the next time I have an idea, I'm going to get a negative remark. The thing is, I know your offering help, but so far I haven't seen any praise, which is kind of saddening, and off-putting. At the start, you don't need to worry about the sheer amount of resources there are. Some resources are only there to help you choose the path to success. Example, Tungsten Ore can be used to make Recurporation Factories, which basically are huge factories used to design very large buildings. You don't need that. You just might want it. Feel free to ask questions on this, and I'll answer them the best I can.

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MilchoPenchev    1178
You didn't call it ridiculous. That's funny, because that's what you posted.

I said the idea of having 300-500 resources sounds ridiculous - to me. Not your game. I didn't think that was the entirety of your game, and I still don't know how all of your game will function, so how can I call it ridiculous?

 

I didn't take it personally whatsoever, I just said that the kind of posts that base a game idea of a game that has actually been released it quite frustrating to me, because it put's me off making game ideas, because I think that the next time I have an idea, I'm going to get a negative remark.

Since there wasn't specifics on your game idea, the best I could do is think of an approximation of an existing game which I've played that had a lot of resources. That would be Civ V, and hence my comparison. Also, someone having criticism towards a game idea is probably inevitable - you yourself said that you can't make a game that appeals to everyone. Maybe the game you're making isn't going to appeal to people like me. So don't let one person's comments stop you from coming up with game ideas. But at least in my experience, coming up with an idea and the process of refining it down to specific game mechanics usually involves criticism on some parts. Like having 300-500 resources.

 

The thing is, I know your offering help, but so far I haven't seen any praise, which is kind of saddening, and off-putting.

Praise for what though? You haven't given any specifics. I do think that a lot of resources can be done, as I was describing earlier, but I can't think of a way to introduce that many resources to a player without a rather steep curve, and you haven't given some details on how your resources will be handled. So far it really has been hard for me to figure out your ideas from your posts, and maybe you'll have some great ideas that I can't think of. Remember, what we see in our head and what we describe rarely matches. It's hard to transcribe your vision of a game onto paper, let alone in such a manner that most other people understand exactly what you meant.

 

At the start, you don't need to worry about the sheer amount of resources there are. Some resources are only there to help you choose the path to success. Example, Tungsten Ore can be used to make Recurporation Factories, which basically are huge factories used to design very large buildings. You don't need that. You just might want it. Feel free to ask questions on this, and I'll answer them the best I can.

You should describe your resource system more thoroughly. Having a lot of resources and a lot of different requirements for each building may make it hard for a player to see how the building progression might happen. Usually there's an implied (meaning, non-explicitly specified) system where you need to have certain buildings to make other buildings or units (think how starcraft has it) - but with a ton of different resources it will be incredibly more complex. Even if some resources are only there to help you, it may not be immidiately obvious and it still adds to the complexity of a game. Tungsten Ore's only use may be for Recurporation Factories, but unless you state that explicitly, the player may see it as a building requirement, assume it's important and proceed to gather a lot of it. Or alternatively, it may be a vital resource, but the player doesn't realize that and fails to gather it, leaving her/him in a bind.

 

That's one of the other things in most games - resources were usually specific to a certain type of production. After months of Empire Earth II, I was able to figure out most of them (they have around 7 resources). Food is mostly used for units, Stone was for towers/walls and most buildings. Gold was required for certain units, while others required saltpeter. Based on how I wanted to play, I knew how to allocate my resource management - which resources I needed to focus on, and which to not care about much. And that was after months of play, with seven resources. I hope you see why I think having 300-500 types of resources may be overwhelming. And if you can think of an intuitive or easy to understand enough system, more power to you.

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Leikaru    118
You didn't call it ridiculous. That's funny, because that's what you posted.

I said the idea of having 300-500 resources sounds ridiculous - to me. Not your game. I didn't think that was the entirety of your game, and I still don't know how all of your game will function, so how can I call it ridiculous?

 

I didn't take it personally whatsoever, I just said that the kind of posts that base a game idea of a game that has actually been released it quite frustrating to me, because it put's me off making game ideas, because I think that the next time I have an idea, I'm going to get a negative remark.

Since there wasn't specifics on your game idea, the best I could do is think of an approximation of an existing game which I've played that had a lot of resources. That would be Civ V, and hence my comparison. Also, someone having criticism towards a game idea is probably inevitable - you yourself said that you can't make a game that appeals to everyone. Maybe the game you're making isn't going to appeal to people like me. So don't let one person's comments stop you from coming up with game ideas. But at least in my experience, coming up with an idea and the process of refining it down to specific game mechanics usually involves criticism on some parts. Like having 300-500 resources.

 

The thing is, I know your offering help, but so far I haven't seen any praise, which is kind of saddening, and off-putting.

Praise for what though? You haven't given any specifics. I do think that a lot of resources can be done, as I was describing earlier, but I can't think of a way to introduce that many resources to a player without a rather steep curve, and you haven't given some details on how your resources will be handled. So far it really has been hard for me to figure out your ideas from your posts, and maybe you'll have some great ideas that I can't think of. Remember, what we see in our head and what we describe rarely matches. It's hard to transcribe your vision of a game onto paper, let alone in such a manner that most other people understand exactly what you meant.

 

At the start, you don't need to worry about the sheer amount of resources there are. Some resources are only there to help you choose the path to success. Example, Tungsten Ore can be used to make Recurporation Factories, which basically are huge factories used to design very large buildings. You don't need that. You just might want it. Feel free to ask questions on this, and I'll answer them the best I can.

You should describe your resource system more thoroughly. Having a lot of resources and a lot of different requirements for each building may make it hard for a player to see how the building progression might happen. Usually there's an implied (meaning, non-explicitly specified) system where you need to have certain buildings to make other buildings or units (think how starcraft has it) - but with a ton of different resources it will be incredibly more complex. Even if some resources are only there to help you, it may not be immidiately obvious and it still adds to the complexity of a game. Tungsten Ore's only use may be for Recurporation Factories, but unless you state that explicitly, the player may see it as a building requirement, assume it's important and proceed to gather a lot of it. Or alternatively, it may be a vital resource, but the player doesn't realize that and fails to gather it, leaving her/him in a bind.

 

That's one of the other things in most games - resources were usually specific to a certain type of production. After months of Empire Earth II, I was able to figure out most of them (they have around 7 resources). Food is mostly used for units, Stone was for towers/walls and most buildings. Gold was required for certain units, while others required saltpeter. Based on how I wanted to play, I knew how to allocate my resource management - which resources I needed to focus on, and which to not care about much. And that was after months of play, with seven resources. I hope you see why I think having 300-500 types of resources may be overwhelming. And if you can think of an intuitive or easy to understand enough system, more power to you.

 

 

Too be honest, you called a part of my game ridiculous. You don't like the game, don't come an post on it. You like the game, but have a few suggestions, post on it. End it there. Not the thread, just this boring argument. Don't boss my game. That's my job.

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serratemplar    1656

I have some questions for the OP.

 

By "300-500 resources", do you mean hundreds of types of resources? How do you define these types? Metals like iron and copper? Lumber like oak and elm? EVE Online actually has a great many resources (likely numbering in the hundreds) for the manufacturing side of its game; that's something you might check out to see how one team put this idea into  practice. (I admit that I did not enjoy that aspect of the game, though I tried it for a handful of months, gathering and selling refined resources to make money...not very fun for me personally, but I wanted to try it.)

 

What will be done with the resources? What is their to build? What will be fun about gathering the resources? What about spending them? How much time do you envision it taking to gather enough resources to manufacture, say, a sword? A horse cart? A manor house? How much time will it take to make those things? Once they are made, what can do they do for you?

 

How do you envision the gathering of resources taking place? Active gathering, like Minecraft or Terraria? Passive gathering, like SWG or EVE Online?

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