ApochPiQ, I would so up vote your post if it wasn't in the Lounge.

There is certainly a culture in OS kernel development (especially in OpenBSD) where to an outside observer it looks as though everyone is being rude to one another but in reality, they just want to spend less time flower coating all their sentences, and more time developing awesome software.

The problem is that too many people have fragile egos.

That may be completely true, but it's also true that a large number of people are quite lacking in tact.

As well as realizing that you never know what the other person is thinking, and maybe they're just tactless instead of being intentionally rude... we also need to look at our own posts and ask whether they're likely to be misinterpreted as insulting.

Or if they're deliberately insulting, we need to stop being a jerk

I don't think that trying to speak plainly and quickly is any excuse for lacking in tact. It takes no effort, and is plainer.

[quote name='Shaquil' timestamp='1358653893' post='5023390']
Haha and you know it's these kinds of random snipes from the rafters that annoy me, personally. Honestly, it added little to the conversation and was just disrespectful. Not to mention that you just flat out made an assumption. What he said implies that he thinks programming and computer science are the same, but as he made clear afterward, that's not the case. And then there's the fact that most undergraduate computer science majors are, uh, programmers. So his statement still makes sense. I just don't get what fun people derive from tossing in something like this comment. In this case, it's not even that bad. But when I'm asking a question about something that isn't obvious, like a quirk I might've found with the comma operator in C++, and someone has to make a snide remark, it pisses me off.[/quote]

If you tell a man flat-out that he is wrong, he'll dig his heels in and argue - whether or not he is actually wrong. Giving him a gentle nudge in the right direction is a far more effective tactic. I added a touch of sarcasm to make it harder to outright ignore...

And guess what? The OP didn't appear offended, and replied with a very suitable response that demonstrated he was indeed aware of the point I was making.

As they say on the interwebs: effective communication technique is effective.

You, Glassknife, may not have the free time to deal with every mediocre person trying to suck your time and knowledge, but I bet you dollars to donuts(damn I've always wanted to say that) that that guy you think is a total self absorbed arrogant jerk feels the exact same way about you!

Of course he did. This guy hated me. The difference between us was that while he tried to make sure everyone knew how smart he was, I was busy helping the other programmers in the group get the job done. I left years ago, and both of us wrote a lot of code, and all the code we both wrote is still being used years later.

I recently read a book (I can't remember the title) where the author pointed out that being a programmer was like being a doctor, and the patient the customer. While you need to give the customer what they want, sometimes you shouldn't listen to them. The author's example was a patient who suggested that washing hands before his surgery was a waste of time, so don't do it. It is the doctor's responsibility to not kill his customer, and so he doesn't listen, he does what is right, and washes his hands.

The same goes for a project manager that suggests testing code is a waste of time, so don't do it. Depending on the job, it may be the programmers responsibilty to ignore the manager and do what's right. This is just an example, so don't take it as carved in stone. But hopefully you see my point.

The same can be said for bedside manner, which is similar to a programmers ability to speak to others about the programming craft. While some doctors may believe that bedside manner is a waste of time, it is what separates a good doctor from a great one. It is a huge cop-out to say "The reason I can't talk to people is because f*** you. I'm too busy to learn how to communicate effectively."

*sigh* this thread is still going on?

Pro-tip: if someone is lacking in tact/coming across as rude, point it out and ask them about it. They're likely trying to help you learn something, and you can in turn help them learn something. Or perhaps clear up confusions, misunderstandings, assumptions, etc. that either or both of you may have had.

Threads like this aren't aimed at any particular person, so they're not going to effectively reach the people you want to really address. You have to do that on a case by case, person by person basis. This thread just sounds like people let things bottle up and now they're venting. The key is to not bottle it up, be open about how things are or how they're coming across, and try to resolve any issues before they grow into a thread like this.

The world really isn't that bad. There's a few douche bags and trolls, but for the most part people are good human beings. Just like you might need advice on programming or music or playing a sport etc. someone else might need advice on being an effective communicator. If someone lacks communication skills and you just complain about it instead of helping them, you're the jerk.

Side anecdote: there have been a few times (note: not a lot; a few) on this site where I've posted something and it rubbed someone the wrong way, came across as rude, etc. And you know what? I'm really thankful for those who were mature enough to point it out and ask me about it. It allowed me to explain that no, I wasn't trying to be a dick, and thank them for helping me to clarify my original intent and learn how to more effectively communicate in the future. Threads like this, however, don't help me because it just sounds like "everyone is a dick and they're mean!" If I'm coming across as rude, tell me. Telling the world a generalized story isn't going to help me or fix the apparent problem.