Music Costs

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58 comments, last by nsmadsen 11 years, 2 months ago

I've tried to use plenty of emoticons (of the smiling sort) and haven't called you anything. I've called the action inappropriate and then tried to explain why it was so. Perhaps you took offense to this - because I've noticed you were agreeing with comments from others that either aligned or echoed what I was saying (at least in part). So I would agree - my tone wasn't meant to be harsh but rather firm while explaining what the offense was. After all, I've left everything else you posted up and intact - I just removed the direct link to the composer to protect his right to privacy while allowing you to further discuss the matter.

I think that's about as fair as I could handle it. I've also taken your suggestion and updated the forum rules to make things more clear for everyone.

Thanks,


Nate

Nathan Madsen
Nate (AT) MadsenStudios (DOT) Com
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios
Austin, TX

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I've tried to use plenty of emoticons (of the smiling sort) and haven't called you anything. I've called the action inappropriate and then tried to explain why it was so. Perhaps you took offense to this - because I've noticed you were agreeing with comments from others that either aligned or echoed what I was saying (at least in part). So I would agree - my tone wasn't meant to be harsh but rather firm while explaining what the offense was. After all, I've left everything else you posted up and intact - I just removed the direct link to the composer to protect his right to privacy while allowing you to further discuss the matter.

I think that's about as fair as I could handle it. I've also taken your suggestion and updated the forum rules to make things more clear for everyone.

Thanks,


Nate

Honestly, aside from the original comment where it seemed as though you were attacking the idea of me posting his rate I really had no problem with anything you have said. In retrospect I can agree that I probably took it more personal than I should have since I felt as if you were saying "im an industry guy and the things you are doing are below me and everybody else who is in the industry!", at least that is how I perceived it. All proceeding posts have been more than informative and a joy to read. This thread has been very informative and I hope that it can help other developers who are looking to find information on musical rates. All in all, thanks!

I've tried to use plenty of emoticons (of the smiling sort) and haven't called you anything. I've called the action inappropriate and then tried to explain why it was so. Perhaps you took offense to this - because I've noticed you were agreeing with comments from others that either aligned or echoed what I was saying (at least in part). So I would agree - my tone wasn't meant to be harsh but rather firm while explaining what the offense was. After all, I've left everything else you posted up and intact - I just removed the direct link to the composer to protect his right to privacy while allowing you to further discuss the matter.

I think that's about as fair as I could handle it. I've also taken your suggestion and updated the forum rules to make things more clear for everyone.

Thanks,


Nate

Would me linking my current work, via dropbox link, here and asking what people thought the rate/quality be allowed?

Honestly, aside from the original comment where it seemed as though you were attacking the idea of me posting his rate I really had no problem with anything you have said. In retrospect I can agree that I probably took it more personal than I should have since I felt as if you were saying "im an industry guy and the things you are doing are below me and everybody else who is in the industry!", at least that is how I perceived it.

Not at all, that's not how I meant it. There were several points that you completely misread or misunderstood me as well. For example, I was never advocating paying someone brand new to the business the same rate as someone established. But reading your response to me - that's how you understood it. Clearly there was some misunderstanding here and there. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough myself. I think if we were discussing face-to-face things would have gone much better. I was firm with you, however, because in the 7 years I've been on GD.net this was the first time someone tried to publicly post someone's private information. And I simply found that unacceptable and wanted to put a stop to it immediately. It wasn't meant to be personal but I wanted to make sure both you and anyone reading this would know that kind of action wouldn't be tolerated. But enough about that.

All proceeding posts have been more than informative and a joy to read. This thread has been very informative and I hope that it can help other developers who are looking to find information on musical rates. All in all, thanks!

I'm very thankful for all that take part in this forum and most of the threads have been very positive. This is a minor blemish and I don't want it to tarnish your impression of GD.net and it certainly doesn't tarnish my impression of you. It was just a minor thing that we've already worked out. We have a great mix of seasoned pros (Brian's a great example) as well as experienced folks active in the indie field on top of industry noobs. The discussions and sharing of thoughts and approaches is awesome!

Would me linking my current work, via dropbox link, here and asking what people thought the rate/quality be allowed?

If you wanted to share the work to get an overall impression of quality and feedback, that's fine! No problem! I think it would cross the line if you said something akin to "This artist [insert artist's name here] charged me $50 per animation. Is it worth it?" That would be too much because it's not your business or role to publicly share another's rate. That's their business. And that's the distinction I've been trying to make repeatedly. The contact shared his rates, which are not shared publicly on his website. Sharing this information publicly is very different than a "isn't Nathan Madsen a jerk." thread. smile.png Besides, you're 100% right - I would shut down a thread that was bashing you (or anyone else here) as well. I want this forum to be a positive and encouraging place - and for the most part, it is!

Everything else I've been saying is mainly look for the best crew you can in your given budget and be careful when taking on free work because it can backfire. That's about it. But we're at the high risk of beating a dead horse here. smile.png No harm, no foul. I'm glad to have you here and as I said in my first response to you - I applaud you looking for more info!! I just want to respect other's right to privacy as well. Make sense?

Nathan Madsen
Nate (AT) MadsenStudios (DOT) Com
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios
Austin, TX

As a composer who was just fired from a hobbyist project 3 months into development for asking too many questions about the contract, I will tell you to get both parts in writing. Even a simple "don't screw me over" contract consisting of what IP belongs to who until what payment is made will protect you better than digging through Skype conversations like I ended up doing.

EDIT: I should probably mention that the contract in question was one I hadn't signed yet, and after 3 months they had come up with a contract that consisted of 5 lines of text. It left a lot of legal holes that I wasn't willing to sign to and that's what led to my removal. But my point stands.

I had a guy who was working with me until I asked him to sign an NDA. ( the work he was doing needed to be protected by one ) I pulled a standard NDA from the internet and modified some names and titles as well as ensuring it was for non payment ( since none of us are being paid right now ) and he wouldn't sign it. He did however let me use the work he did do which was very nice of him. I am very big on ensuring contracts are made as I am fully aware of how somebody could screw you over. i am sorry to hear that has happened to you.

As for the work, I just got it from the guy who is doing stuff for free. I personally think the work is amazing ( specially for free ) and wanted to see if you guys thought the same.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41065/rvpromo-04-03.mp3

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41065/rvpromo-03-02.mp3

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/41065/rvpromo-01-01.mp3

They're all great pieces of music. The sample quality makes me think iPad or indie rather than cinematic film score but the pieces are solid (and that may have been the intended effect)

However, I think you're kind of skirting around the iffy line of if you should be posting those or not. It seems awfully close to the subject matter of the last disagreement

I dont need a price, just wanted to know your concepts of the quality. This is not the same guy and I own the rights to these songs.

Judging just the music alone, each track works well. And if you and the team feel like each cue fits within the game and it's vision - then you're all set. Strange he wouldn't sign the NDA but that issue aside, the music is nice. Be warned though - liking music is very subjective so some may love these tracks while others dislike them. What matters most (at this stage) is that the team creating the game feels like these tracks align well with the game itself. If you get into play testing later and a large majority of your testers rate the music really low then something's amiss.

Nathan Madsen
Nate (AT) MadsenStudios (DOT) Com
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios
Austin, TX

Again, thanks for the time. Good to know and good information all around.

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