You do not "have" to have a degree. With or without a degree you will have to network and or apply for jobs. Work experience and skill is most definitely important. If you don't have the work experience, a company will most definitely want you to show them papers.
Also depends on who you are applying too. Are you applying to EA or a company of less than 30 persons? Even so, it depends on the hiring managers level of control.
I'd hire experience over a know-it-all college brat any day. When you interview, show them why you are better than all those college brats they just interviewed. Don't lose hope and be discouraged. Have a strategy and get your butt out there.
Equal opportunity employer? May the best man win.
Experience without a degree
Present day I find it very easy to land a development position in web/biz dev. and the compensation is so far fantastic. That being said, I still find an enormous amount of discrimination by engineers & co-workers who have one (or several) degrees. I'm not exactly the most secure person, and I've always had a shy personality (with a touch of social anxiety) so I don't exactly brush off co-workers jokes or remarks. Really it makes me question my situation and assess my goals.
It sounds to me like that's your real reason for pursuing a degree. You already have no trouble landing jobs and getting excellent pay. If the only thing you're trying to solve is the problem of people looking down their noses at you, you may never be able to solve that -- certainly not by just getting a degree. The piece of paper is not a magic portal to the land of respect of your peers.
Take the degree if you want to learn. Not because you want respect.
Author
Present day I find it very easy to land a development position in web/biz dev. and the compensation is so far fantastic. That being said, I still find an enormous amount of discrimination by engineers & co-workers who have one (or several) degrees. I'm not exactly the most secure person, and I've always had a shy personality (with a touch of social anxiety) so I don't exactly brush off co-workers jokes or remarks. Really it makes me question my situation and assess my goals.
It sounds to me like that's your real reason for pursuing a degree. You already have no trouble landing jobs and getting excellent pay. If the only thing you're trying to solve is the problem of people looking down their noses at you, you may never be able to solve that -- certainly not by just getting a degree. The piece of paper is not a magic portal to the land of respect of your peers.
Take the degree if you want to learn. Not because you want respect.
That's an interesting point to make because I've generally reversed your last statement throughout my life. That isn't to say getting a degree held no value of learning, it's just something that's always been preached as essential for being a part of society. It's interesting at this point in my life to hear the opposite so frequently, and it's obvious to me now that it's not a golden key to getting hired.
I think the point you are making is that there will always be people that find a reason to "look down their noses at you", which I agree with. I do however have direct experience with being treated differently because I have never attended college. I'm starting to think however that this is more of an issue with the environment I'm in. One idea for the short term I'm considering is just applying for a different department at my company(get on a different dev. team)...
At any rate thanks for the words, much appreciated.
Take the degree if you want to learn. Not because you want respect.
I agree with this, but also disagree with it.
I feel the respect factor goes both ways. Not so much as a brag factor, but the respect of someone going to school and completing the system by dedicating their life into doing so. It is the same reason you respect someone going to Yale vs an online Chinese get your degree in 10 hrs school.
I agree though that you take the degree to learn and build off. You explore alot more than you think using a degree learning style. It also shows that your able to start something, stick with it even though its not enjoyable or a burden and complete it. Most game companies that I know of usually use the line of BS/MS or Equivalant experiance. This isn't just game design, this is about the field and the supposed knowledge you would have gotten at the school should you have attended the courses. They ask for that because the bare min that these offer will at least help push you in the right direction since you have the implied logic.
Would someone in my position benefit from a Computer Science degree?
No. Any discrimination you are perceiving falls under 2 categories:
#1: It’s there, but not related to your lack of degree. It is more likely your lack of professional experience and/or your ability to carry yourself as a confident being. Note that if you carry yourself over-confidently (as in above your skill level) you will just incite more discrimination.
#2: It’s not there and you have a mental issue/social issue/self-esteem issue to resolve.
#3: Any mixture of #1 and #2.
In any case, getting a degree isn’t going to make you less shy or more confident, nor will it make any actual discrimination against you stop.
Even if you had a degree you could be a total idiot and you will get the same or more discrimination. People judge others based on personality and ability to complete tasks correctly/overall skill level. Not on papers they got years ago.
A degree is not your solution.
Building confidence and skills/experience are, and the best way to do both at the same time is to just stick with it and work.
I feel the respect factor goes both ways. Not so much as a brag factor, but the respect of someone going to school and completing the system by dedicating their life into doing so. It is the same reason you respect someone going to Yale vs an online Chinese get your degree in 10 hrs school.
I don’t think this is correct.
I don’t respect anyone for going to Yale, Harvard, Stanford, etc. That doesn’t mean they are particularly skilled (in a lot of cases it means they had wealthy parents) or know how to function in a real work environment.
No, I don’t respect people for higher education.
Instead, I would be suspicious (“disrespect” is the wrong word here) of someone who got an online degree from China.
To put it in slightly less-accurate wording, no one gets respect for attending a high-end school.
They get disrespect for doing weird WTF things to get their degrees/diplomas.
L. Spiro
After reading most of the topic, I agree with the ones associating your problem with social situation more than skills. That being said, it seems a psychologist or a supporting partner or a good friend would help you much more than a degree.
A degree is nothing more than a piece of paper confirming your skills. Well, I don't have a degree in english, yet you understand me. You are getting the job done without a degree - good for you. Especially since it seems most of the schools won't really teach you much at this point.
Think of it like this: your coworkers may be the guitarists that finished music schools and after years of struggling, tears and being forced by their parents, and are probably able to play their guitars with a decent level of skill. That still doesn't mean you can't be a Slash that mastered the guitar while sitting on a toilet. Ask Slash if he cries all night because he doesn't have a music degree.
My 2 cents:
I'm a self made developer. What I know simply doesn't come with a paper to proove it.
I've landed every job I really wanted, therefore, the paper wouldn't help in that regard.
That said, all HRs know what they're coming up with: a bargain bin.
Compensation has always been smaller as a result, and the lack of a paper to show for has always been the summoned excuse (never my actual capabilities).
If what you want is a better paycheck, might be worth to add a few papers to your resume, but that's all its going to do, really.
2c...
I started in this industry at a time where most people had no degree...either from just not bothering or 'dropping out'. Degrees became a little more the norm over time and as such there came to be a point along my path where most people new to the industry did have a degree and I was largely surrounded by quite a lot of 'qualified competition'.
i.e. I've been through this.
As a result, I spent many a year around that time wondering whether to get a degree or not. I never did take the leap and nowadays I’m glad about that, as the time would have been wasted. The only thing that really mattered was that I was always able to do the work and after years of doing that, the relevance of a degree that I might have taken time to earn 10, 15 or 20 years ago is just obsolete. Nobody really cares nowadays and for the most part never legitimately did, either I just have much more experience than most people around me which nullifies their issue or, they have enough experience in addition to their degree to now understand it doesn’t matter. Stick with it and you will find yourself in the same position.
People can be a judgmental as they wish but if you can do the work they will never have a legitimate complaint so please bear in mind that this speaks more of them, than any failure of your own.
Thus, I agree…if you do get it, do so because it adds to your skillset and not to get a +1 in the eyes of your shallow colleagues.
I would also add, the best +1 you’ll get is working with them and holding your own, especially if they ever struggle on something and you can help them out. This will serve as experience on their part and help them overcome their issue. Resist the old ‘well, look where your fancy bit of paper got you’ dance either way because that will just distract such people from appreciating your own efforts.
My opinion: I doubt you would benefit from a computer science degree. You have been programming for 10 years - a degree would be a waste of time aside from having a scrap of paper. A scrap of paper that you don't even need if you have solid experience and a portfolio behind you. You have the experience and you might even already have the portfolio - a degree would be useful if you were more entry level. If I can get a job without a degree with nothing but the benefit of having started to gain experience in peripheral IT industries early, making my own games/posting code to GitHub in my spare time, and having some not-sucky interpersonal skills for the interview, you definitely can.
1. A scrap of paper that you don't even need if you have solid experience and a portfolio behind you. You have the experience
2. and you might even already have the portfolio
1. I agree.
2. Unsure about that one. It's always good to take a good hard look at one's own portfolio with a critical eye. Never hurts to add to it.
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