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Thomas Wiborg

Microsoft confirms XNA is over

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mhagain    13430

well,i never used xna,mostly because it was in c#.But I'm sure they'll make a replacement for it

It's called "OpenGL". :wink:

gimme an OpenGL that behaves reasonably consistent on different vendors hardware and I'll believe you...

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So C++ with the new math libs is the only future proof option?

Which part of the C++11 math library are you talking about? They didn't add standardized matrices or similar without informing me, did they?

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HonestDuane    155

So C++ with the new math libs is the only future proof option?

Which part of the C++11 math library are you talking about? They didn't add standardized matrices or similar without informing me, did they?

 

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/chuckw/archive/2012/03/27/introducing-directxmath.aspx

 

Or if you rather: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/shawnhar/archive/2013/01/08/simplemath-a-simplified-wrapper-for-directxmath.aspx

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SimonForsman    7642

That's really bad news ...

I was a bit surprised that Microsoft even bothered with updating XNA in the first place, i've always seen it as the indie xbox360 API (and the xbox360 doesn't change much).

 

The big question i would like to see answered really is: Does Microsoft intend to completely ignore indie developers for their next console or will there be a lower level wrapper instead for that one ?

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mhagain    13430

I was a bit surprised that Microsoft even bothered with updating XNA in the first place, i've always seen it as the indie xbox360 API (and the xbox360 doesn't change much).

That's really bad news ...

 

The big question i would like to see answered really is: Does Microsoft intend to completely ignore indie developers for their next console or will there be a lower level wrapper instead for that one ?

 

I don't see why a hypothetical "DirectX 12" can't fulfil both roles.

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NightCreature83    5002

I was a bit surprised that Microsoft even bothered with updating XNA in the first place, i've always seen it as the indie xbox360 API (and the xbox360 doesn't change much).

That's really bad news ...

 

The big question i would like to see answered really is: Does Microsoft intend to completely ignore indie developers for their next console or will there be a lower level wrapper instead for that one ?

 

I don't see why a hypothetical "DirectX 12" can't fulfil both roles.

I read a post about what MS sent to the DX and XNA MVPs(http://ventspace.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/directxxna-phase-out-continues/) the other day and that really seemed to indicate they where stopping every thing DX related, and sticking the parts that where used in the platform SDK. This means we are only going to see a potential "D3D 12" when windows 9 rolls around, seeing win 8 shipped with 11.1 which is rumored to be the API the next Xbox will use as well.

 

It seems MS is making people use C++ again as this is their major language for win 8 development on all win 8 varieties.

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Hodgman    51223

and sticking the parts that where used in the platform SDK

This has already happened. The "DirectX SDK" stopped existing long ago.

It seems MS is making people use C++ again as this is their major language for win 8 development on all win 8 varieties.

Why so? You can't use plain old C++ at all with WinRT/Metro/Windows-Store -- you can use C++/CX or C# though, which appear to be on equal footing.
You can also use D3D via C# -- XNA was never a "C# version of D3D", it's a comprehensive game framework/engine.

So C++ with DirectXMath is the only future proof option?

You're comparing XNA, which is a complete game framework programmable via C#, with C++ and DirectXMath, which is a language and a math library? I don't understand the comparison... Edited by Hodgman

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_the_phantom_    11250

It seems MS is making people use C++ again as this is their major language for win 8 development on all win 8 varieties.

They aren't "making" you do anything; C# (well, anything .Net really) remains a core language for Windows development, be it RT/Metro/Phone or desktop. What has happened is that C++ has got back on an equal footing inside the ecosystem so it can be used and interop with those other languages in a much nicer way (the C++/CX extensions are pretty swish; allowing interop while also allowing normal C++ code).

The way they are handling WP8 and Metro/Store development MIGHT be a hint as to how they'll allow development for the next console; the kernel is likely to be the same after all so you have the same sandboxing models in place as you have in Store/Phone apps. I wouldn't expect it on release, but 6 months to a year down the line, once everything is stable? Maybe.

Of course, much like Window's Store apps I wouldn't be surprised if you needed to be running Windows 8 to develop for it...

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HonestDuane    155

and sticking the parts that where used in the platform SDK

This has already happened. The "DirectX SDK" stopped existing long ago.

>It seems MS is making people use C++ again as this is their major language for win 8 development on all win 8 varieties.

Why so? You can't use plain old C++ at all with WinRT/Metro/Windows-Store -- you can use C++/CX or C# though, which appear to be on equal footing.
You can also use D3D via C# -- XNA was never a "C# version of D3D", it's a comprehensive game framework/engine.

So C++ with DirectXMath is the only future proof option?

You're comparing XNA, which is a complete game framework programmable via C#, with C++ and DirectXMath, which is a language and a math library? I don't understand the comparison...

As you are most likely aware, XNA is a .Net wrapper around the C++ based directX bindings. .. so my thinking is that if XNA is not updated when they remove the old math library (and MSFT just said they would not), that effectively kills it, or worse, math just got a lot harder to figure out for game development for the noobs.   Am I communicating clearly?  If not, I apologize.. 

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mhagain    13430

As you are most likely aware, XNA is a .Net wrapper around the C++ based directX bindings. .. so my thinking is that if XNA is not updated when they remove the old math library (and MSFT just said they would not), that effectively kills it, or worse, math just got a lot harder to figure out for game development for the noobs.   Am I communicating clearly?  If not, I apologize.

 

You're missing a point on the previous page - XNA has not just suddenly ceased to exist.  You can still use it.  It's still a supported platform.  It just won't be updated in future, but that's no reason to suddenly declare it off-limits for anything.  It's still there, it still works, you can still use it

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Hodgman    51223

As you are most likely aware, XNA is a .Net wrapper around the C++ based directX bindings

Ah ok. Well, it's actually a lot more than that.
SlimDX or SharpDX are .Net wrappers around DX.
XNA is more like a .Net game engine (a game-oriented runtime framework and a tool-chain) that happens to use DX. It provides systems other than just wrappers, and it provides different abstractions than DX, which makes it something more than just a wrapper.

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CC Ricers    1491

As you are most likely aware, XNA is a .Net wrapper around the C++ based directX bindings. .. so my thinking is that if XNA is not updated when they remove the old math library (and MSFT just said they would not), that effectively kills it, or worse, math just got a lot harder to figure out for game development for the noobs.   Am I communicating clearly?  If not, I apologize.

 

You're missing a point on the previous page - XNA has not just suddenly ceased to exist.  You can still use it.  It's still a supported platform.  It just won't be updated in future, but that's no reason to suddenly declare it off-limits for anything.  It's still there, it still works, you can still use it

 

This is correct. The only thing that is not certain is for how long the XBL Indie Games service will continue to be supported. Currently, XNA is the only way possible to get indie games distributed on Xbox, and there's no word yet if a similar service is coming to the console's successor.

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_the_phantom_    11250

This is correct. The only thing that is not certain is for how long the XBL Indie Games service will continue to be supported. Currently, XNA is the only way possible to get indie games distributed on Xbox, and there's no word yet if a similar service is coming to the console's successor.

Given how they are treating Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 with regards to getting indie developers on the platform to produce apps I wouldn't be surprised if the next Xbox has something in much the same going forwards - however given, last I checked, the next Xbox hasn't been officially announced yet the lack of word with regards to any supported APIs and functionality is hardly surprising.

MS aren't known for giving details pre-official announcements to the point where they will go silent on issues they plan to address in up coming conferences (see: various Win8 related things from last year).

As I said on the other page; the kernel is likely to be the same as WP8/Win8 so the ability to sandbox will be the same, however I suspect for the indie crowd you might end up with a requirement to go to VS2012 (certainly for VS in fact) and Win8 to do anything with it.

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