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is the hero the villain?

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Viranimus    106

Hey Everybody,

    Let me start this off by saying that I am now 36 hours without sleep and this idea started out as a seed not even a mere 4 hours ago. So if it sounds lame that's my default excuse. I was at work cleaning, where I spend most of my time thinking, and an idea dawned on me. Why does the villain always have an army of followers when the entire land knows hes evil? Who would sign up to be a henchman for a mad man? Except for a few head cases that would be very few people.  However, what if the villain started out as the hero? Here's my idea:


    After months at sea, the ship "Veritas" has it's destination in sight. The foreign land of Teravictoria is exotic and wrought with danger outside the city boarders. As the ship sails toward land it get caught up in a sudden storm that came out of no where. Being tossed in turned in the waves makes the Veritas take on some water and get dragged to the epicenter of the storm. Inside the storm the eye, A man in enchanted armor floats  with a blue gem rising out of the oddly calm seas. The crew watch as the armored man enact a ritual that they have never seen. In the middle of the ritual, they are spotted and the armored man uses magic to over turn the boat.

   The player picks their Class* and has a dream of that character's past. When they awaken, they are in an unfamiliar shack. An Old Teravokian (citizen of Teravictoria) has been taking care of the player as they were out. He begins to introduce himself as Mylock, a fisherman who happened across the player when he was fishing. He took them in and nursed them back to health. The player recounts what has happened to them and describes the mystery man. Mylock seems to think it may be their king Delacroix. He goes on to describe how Delacroix was once the hero who united the lands of Teravictoria. He now leads them all and protects them from the monsters outside their cities. The player knows that the man who overturned their boat cant be a benevolent king. They go on to fulfill their destiny.


* Classes (un-named because the player can create their own name):

Pirate: The pirate was the captain of the Veritas. With his trusty sword "Aequitas" (Bonus points to whoever gets the reference) He masters the sea.  His ship was his only truth in his life and his sword was the dealer of his own brand of justice. Things were good for him. But all good things come to an end. The law was cracking down on pirates and his fellow comrades were dwindling down. He meet a dying pirate lord and was given a map to a treasure that might turn the tide in the pirates favor. He needs supplies and money so he takes on some passengers.


Monk: Since she was a young child, the monk was groomed by her monastery to become the Dragon Walker. The role is given to one child in every generation to keep the balance of alignments. They believe that good and evil need to be equal for peace to truly be achieved, this allows no side to have too much power to corrupt the land. She was granted the title and sent after a scroll of power. With it, she can learn a powerful spirit attack to help her keep the balance that is tipping in Teravictoria.


Assassin: A member of the Talon Clan, the assassin has served faithfully his entire life. After completing a kill he returns to his Clan's home to find everyone slaughtered and a brother of his wielding the Talon's sacred dagger. A fight ensues and the assassin is poisoned and his brother escapes and goes on the run. With his health fading the assassin uses herbs to extend his life as he chases after his deranged brother.


Archer: The Archer is also on a quest for a magical item. The bow of True sight never misses its target. She has been hunting for this bow since her father had told her stories and fables about it as a child. Her father spent his entire fortune looking for this bow and lost everything including his life. She has spent her entire life looking for this legendary weapon , so she can win back her fathers estate. She gets a tip from a traveling bard that it lies in Teravictoria.


The Player goes through a world where the populous loves their king and you distrust him for trying to kill you. Does this make you the villain of this world. After completing side quests and their story line, They face off with Delacroix and find out he has been driven mad by his magic armor as all the magic items eventually do to their wielders  He believes that he can summon a Leviathan to protect his land, not knowing he wont be able to control it. After killing the Leviathan, Delacroix attacks the player in rage. The final epic battle ends with all the classes showing up and using their magic items to disarm Delacroix of his enchanted armor. He regains his sanity and thanks the heroes. After a celebration they all lock up their magic items in a chest and throw it off a new Veritas.


This is what I have come up with in such a short amount of time. If I slept maybe I can flesh it out better. Tell me what you think and if this is an intresting idea. Thank you in advance



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ShiftyCake    729

The idea itself is not interesting, it's what you do with it.

As has been said many times before, all ideas you think up have been done before. But its what you do when you expand that idea that makes it original.

Let's take the Binding of Isaac for example.

Originally it would have been the idea of a randomly generating dungeon crawl. This is, of course, not a unique idea. But when they added to it, creating various interesting monsters, combining monsters, unique bosses, over a hundred different items with different abilities, secret rooms, a unique art etc. it becomes something more. I guarantee you not a single person would discount the binding of Isaac's originality, nor its worth as a game.


Think on these aspects:

It's not what you come up with, it's what you do with what you come up with.

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Shay Yizhak    200

I liked the story, but I have a few notes:


* Sounds like an RPG (this wasn't mentioned in the text).

* The Archer's story feels lacking, compared to the others. I'd rethink it.

* The final epic battle ends with all 4 classes - why? It'd be nice for you, as a developer to see all classes fighting together, but the player, who has chosen 1 class to play with - doesn't know anything about the other 3 characters. He hasn't seen their story, hasn't played them, and has no connection to them. Unless I misunderstood the gameplay...

* After that final epic battle - the player goes to the king and rescues him, thus saving the kingdom. Sounds kinda anti-climactic. Why doesn't get to kill the villain? Also - if all magical items cause their users to go crazy - wouldn't people know that, and know to avoid magic items?

* Why did the king attack the ship? There should be a reason for it. And don't say "cause he's evil". Evil doers have reason. Logical reasons. A drug dealer will kill a cop to avoid going to prison. That's a perfectly good reason. So - why attack a simple fishing boat?

* Like shifty said - it's an idea. The premise of a game. Now - what are you going to do with it? How will you make it unique, special, interesting or fun?


Basically - it's a good start, but you still have a long way to go. Keep it up!

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DaveTroyer    1060

I think its interesting, but like everyone has seemed to say, it's a little un-inspired.


I'll throw my 2 (or 3 or 4) cents in though. biggrin.png


I think you need to make the king like super freaking crazy. Like talk to himself and argue with himself. Have the king get lost in his own thoughts but maybe only when he isn't in the safety of his castle. Because he is the protector of the civilization, when ever he is outside of the city, he snaps a little and when he's safe in his castle, he calms down a bit. He could still be disconnected from his duties, but everyone could just assume that he is tired from fighting off monsters all day.


So here is another idea. Maybe have him constantly trying to summon and kill the Leviathan because he thinks he needs to defeat it to save the citizens. All the citizens will see him doing is flying out to the sea to do battle with this beast only to have it ignore the king every time so the king returns in defeat. The citizens think it was a victory for the king, but the king knows that he didn't even make a scratch on the beast. This would be driving the king mad over the years. The king attacked the ship maybe because the leviathan paid more attention to the player than the king, sending him into a rage.


Also, I would reverse the order on the final battle. I would make it so that the player fights the king who finally finds or steals or whatever what can attract or kill the leviathan and the player knows that the leviathan will wreck the poop out of the entire island if he summons it, so the player has to fight the king. Then the plot twist happens. Near the end of the battle with the king, the leviathan appears and just kills the king in one fell swoop, thus starting the battle with the real final boss. Boom.


One other thing that was touched on by shay. The ending having all 4 classes seems odd. If you make the player feel like the end all hero only to show they need help, it takes the player down a peg which kind of sucks. I would take a route where each character could be the hero of the entire game. Just like how each class has different story arches, they should also have different challenges and solutions in the game. The assassin may be more agile so they use a rope to cross a gap and avoid some traps where as the pirate might be able to use a magic skeleton key to open a locked door to enter a puzzle room they need to solve to pass the gap. When coming to the end bosses of the king and the leviathan, having different ways the player combat and defeat the bosses will help to add to the replay value of the game. Maybe the monk uses a holy command to summon a giant devine angel/dragon to fight the leviathan on an epic level and maybe the archer uses the newly acquired "True Shot" bow to do a bullet-time event to hit the vulnerable spots of the fast moving leviathan. 


But yeah, just my thoughts...more info on the game type and gameplay features would help us give more ideas.

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ShiftyCake    729

On a side note, I'd think about the fact that you guys are also using magic items. let's say that you choose to have the king killed, thu saving the kingdom. You'd be revered as the new hero's, and become king/s:

the following happens depending on whether you choose to have 1 class fight at the end or all four:


One class: You defeat/kill the king, but as you cast away the magic items and revered as the new hero, thus becoming king, some form of sign initiates leading the player to believe he's going insane thus doing two things. The first is to create an opening to a new game, an end-game clinger that leads to people wanting more, creating a community that'll help you to your second game. The other thing is to really, well, create a meaningful story. Your the persecuted villain who defeats the false hero to be revered as a hero only to change into a villain. If that isn't an interesting plot, I don't know what is.


All classes: The effect would be much the same, the only difference is that you divide the kingdom into four and as you havea  gathering you notice one of them showing a sign of insanity. While it's a nice ending, its kind of a cliche beginning if there is a next game, three hero's fighting a villain  While with the other one, you can do really anything with the part two story. So I would recommend only having one class.

Edited by ShiftyCake

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