• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
FireFreak111

Starting without wanting to find a job

14 posts in this topic

I am currently confused about if the way I am proceeding is the right way to go, my end aim is to create a game based around some key concepts I believe would combine into a great game.

 

I want to create an engine and a game designed around a core concept; That the world does not revolve around the player. This would mean a fully dynamic world, no linear paths, no AI sitting outside a cave waiting for the player to clear it for them. The AI and the world goes on with its day to day order, war, poverty, murder, etc. The player has to find a holding in the world and make what they can of it. Also the gameplay would be highly realistic, meaning locational damage, sword-to-chest meaning death and core survival elements including hunger and thirst. 

 

Regardless of the idea, my main confusion comes from my wanting to become an indie developer (no job in a way) and self-teach everything I need to know.

 

I have finished Year 10 and left school. People I know say I am a smart guy. I excelled at IPT (computing) and English, and Math (when I was enthusiastic about what I was learning). I could never focus while at school, and though I got A's and B's, I was always thinking about development, engines and games. Last minute assignments and high grades. I know alot about how games work, how engines work, know JavaScript and core programming concepts like variables and functions. I am also skilled at Hardware and PC's.

 

I have bought Accelerated C++ (understanding it well enough so far) and begun learning the language, gathered people I can trust and are enthusiastic about game development too, some are coders, others are interested in modelling or sound.

 

Is it necessary to attend college, to finish Year 12 in order to be successful in the Games Industry as an independent developer? Can you succeed with a clear idea, skill and unlimited time?

Edited by SomeRandomGuy12
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Althrough I often vote against collage education, in your case it would be the best choice to continue education and develop your programming skills in your spare time.

 

You don't realize yet that it is A LOT harder to make a game than it seems at first sight. I am professional game developer for years, I am doing a game in my spare time (it is fairly complex game, not some puzzle), and I am sometimes overwhelmed by amount of work and knowledge I need to make it work.

 

And you want to make an engine (absolutely useless waste of time in my opinion) AND a game. That 100x more work then making a game alone, You will need to study dozens of books with hard stuff, you will need to learn collage math.

 

If you are going to learn all that stuff anyways, why not learn it in a collage and get a degree AND knowledge? It is your best bet.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

especially since C++ is a very poor choice of first language (and if you already know another language, you could be using that instead to start building games now)

 

In my opinion, this is somewhat subjective advice and should be taken with a grain of salt.  Programming languages are tools, and I agree with the sentiment that if you already know how to use a tool to accomplish your goal, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and start hacking away.  Game development is difficult enough without throwing the complexities of C++ into the mix at the same time.

 

However, if you're thinking long term and you have the patience, building super basic games in C++ as you learn the language might not be a bad way to start.  It's a pretty powerful tool to have in your belt for a number of reasons.  Just my 2 cents.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But how's your knowledge of Lagrangian mechanics? Poisson distributions? Standard deviation? The rules of integration and differentiation? Pipelined architectures? Data structures? Computational efficiency? BN notation? Colour theory? The physics behind lenses? Mutexs? Locks? Lock-free code? SIMD? Solutions to sparse matrices? Can you dervie the equations to convert a quaternion to a matrix from scratch?

 

Half of that stuff, having a double major myself I dont even know. And dont see the point in knowing either.

Well... I'm 2/3 on the way to be an Analyst Programmer (3 year degree) and there are courses for everything of that except quaternions (that's from a course of Computing Licentiature, a 5 year degree), BN notation (never heard of it) and colour theory (probably covered in the Image Processing optional course). Lens physics aren't what I'd call something you would expect from any CS degree.

 

Anyway, that's the fun stuff actually. Most of the courses deal with systems and organizations (the "analyst" part), software engineering (totally entertaining filling IEEE spreadsheets with requirements) and not so interesting programming ("visual programming" like using RAD Studio with Delphi).

 

To the point. Being an indie dev is hard... like REALLY HARD. More or less successful people (from Zomboid, Sword of Arkhanox, etc) did have some experience doing games before even starting their successful project, and they tell "horror stories" of eating lentils for entire weeks (if they had something to eat that is) and coding for the game 3/4 of the day because nobody was buying the buggy alpha/beta for example.

 

With the kind of dedication (madness!) you need to do that, you wouldn't be asking in a forum if its possible, you'd be moving oceans and mountains to getting your game complete already.

 

Nobody is forcing you to make the next Minecraft, and its not like Notch is the only happy dude in the world. So take it easy.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the wake up call everyone :).

 

I decided to go back to school next year, go to university and during all of this slowly learn and write what I need for my project. I will use this year to get ahead in 3D math and programming, so that Year 11 and 12 math is easier. Here in Australia we have an OP, and it goes from 1-20. My OP estimate was 7 (while slacking off), university requires at minimum 15.

 

Thankyou again.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But how's your knowledge of Lagrangian mechanics? Poisson distributions? Standard deviation? The rules of integration and differentiation? Pipelined architectures? Data structures? Computational efficiency? BN notation? Colour theory? The physics behind lenses? Mutexs? Locks? Lock-free code? SIMD? Solutions to sparse matrices? Can you dervie the equations to convert a quaternion to a matrix from scratch?

 

Half of that stuff, having a double major myself I dont even know. And dont see the point in knowing either.

 

Then you still have a lot to learn ;)

People often say that all you need to know are matrices, quats, trigonometry, and maybe some newtonian mechanics thrown in as well. Whilst you can 'get-by' using this stuff, knowledge of the aspects I listed above will be very helpful in the long run. As an example, consider statistics (that branch of mathematics everyone hates). I used to consider stats to be completely pointless, utterly useless, and hated the fact I was forced to learn various distributions at A-Level. Fast forward ten years, and I then realised that stats can provide a really useful tool when trying to compress data assets. If you know the mean of the data set, its standard deviation, and the distribution it follows; it's very easy to come up with a compression scheme that's tailored to your data set.

 

You might think that knowing how to derive the equations for matrices/quats/etc is completely pointless (because you can just find a bit of C code online that does the computation and use that). In reality however, you'll often need to make that code work with SSE/alti-vec/neon instruction sets. If you take a routine optimised for the FPU and try to fit it into SIMD, it usually ends up being less efficient than the original FPU methods. If however you understand how a formula was derived, you can usually find a solution (from first principles) that will fit the hardware better.

 

One of the first things you learn at university level mechanics, is that newtonian methods are very simple to understand, but they require a hell of a lot of computation. Transforming the problem into lagrangian mechanics give you a much more efficient (and numerically stable) way of computing dynamics simulations. If you ever need to look at the solver code for Havok or PhysX, this stuff will be immensely useful!

 

So you might consider all of those topics completely pointless. I however, consider them to be really useful tools to simplify and optimise some of the harder problems you'll find when developing computer games. All knoweldge you learn, will one day become invaluable - it's just very hard to see why that's the case when you're first learning a topic.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should finish school. It is important because it gives you a well-rounded knowledge about life and yourself. If you got unlimited time, the more polished you can provide to your game. It is hard to tell if an idea is brilliant or not because we cannot read the minds of one yet even millions of people. If you have done game programming, keep challenging yourself. There are many areas to explore in game programming. It is also good to have a sense of project scope and simplicity to your initial design.

 

People love to see a good game prototype. If you can make a good one, let more people know about it. Feedback is valuable because people who give good and bad feedback will help you shape your game to be one they will probably play in the future.

Edited by warnexus
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a minor clarification. Statistics is not considered a branch of mathematics. Reference

 

 

As an example, consider statistics (that branch of mathematics everyone hates).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
School is a useful tool. If you are and school - and can aready write a game - and have done so. To the point of spending more time on your career is a more valueable thing then school. Then drop out - I knew a kid who dropped out 3 days before graduating because he turned 18 and went to work for his fathers construction company. Prefectly fine choice. Dropping out to work on a game and engine... not so much if your not funded and don't LOVE living with your parents. I am also building a game and engine a lot like what your talking about - I've been learning c++ for 8? Years now and have been working on my game for about a year and a half. My estimate right now to with what I've done so far - to write and engine and decently comlex game like what your talking about, no less then 5 years for anything I would consider to maybe be a moderately polished game (by yourself). Could easily be less, could also easily be a lot more. Do you have that much spare time and very little want to move forward in life until its complete? Also learning some concepts without someone experienced to teach you them can be very difficult. Things like - should I use indexed triangle lists or triangle strips to draw my models? And depending on the site and when it was written, you will get different answers. Triangle strips have there place however a lot of sites say to use them for speed, while a lot of newer sites say to use indexed triangle lists because they are easier - don't involve having to find optimal strip patterns and the amount of data being passed to the graphics card usually isn't a major bottleneck.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0