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Rumsfield

Help a Newbie Choose a Program Language

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Rumsfield    111

Hi, I'm new here, and I just read these articles regarding game development for newbies(like me):

 

http://www.gamedev.net/topic/641721-new-to-the-forums-start-here/

http://www.gamefromscratch.com/post/2011/08/04/I-want-to-be-a-game-developer.aspx

 

Anyway, the articles didn't scare me away. You see, I am not a programmer, but I have an idea for a game that I can't get out of my head, it wants to be made. I need to make it!

 

Here's the catch, I know very little about programming, but I have taken a few programming couses in college years ago: QBASIC, Visual BASIC, and Introductory C++, but that is as far as I got because I switched my college major to the healthcare industry.

 

Anyway, I know what I want to do with this game, but not how to achieve it. Let me first tell you about the game.

 

Here is a quick description of the game:

 

What type of game is it?  It is a 4 player cooperative real-time strategy PC game

What is it about/what do you do?  This is a space exploration game which involves micromanaging a space ship along with up to 3 other human players, but it won't be overwhelming or too tedious. Every mouse click will serve a purpose and every player will feel like a valuable member of the crew.

How is this better or different from other space exploration games?   I'm attempting to make a space game that doesn't suck! While the game will certainly be challengeing, it will not be a space simulator. It will include: adjustable difficulty levels, artificial intelligent enemies, ship upgrades, role selection(from several).

2-D or 3-D?   I feel that playing a 2-D game about space travel will not help immerse the player, so I feel it must be 3-D. Unfortunately that means it will be much more difficult to create.

High quality cutting edge graphics?   No, maybe medium quality at best. The graphics will compliment the game's light and humorous style of gamplay.

Who will create it? Just me???

 

Help clear the galaxy from space scum!!!

 

So, what is my question???  I need to know based on the info I provided above about the game I want to make... which programming language do I need to learn that fits all my needs(and isn't a pain in the ass to learn)?

 

Python? C#?

 

I will be happy to answer any question. Thanks for any feedback!

Edited by Rumsfield

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Alpha_ProgDes    6921

Since you're not a programmer and never made a game before, I'll suggest the following:

 

Make this game 2-D

Make it one-player

Use ENIGMA to make the game.

 

Doing this will make creating and finishing the game far more achievable. Once you've done this, you will have learned the basics and can move on to more complicated aspects (ex: multiplayer, network play, 3-D).

Edited by Alpha_ProgDes

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Icarius_24    114

For me, Python is always the best language to start learning how to program. Its where I got my start! biggrin.png I'm not so sure if Python is suited for 3D programming. But its still the best place to start learning the very basics. smile.png

 

Game Maker is an ease-to-use game creation tool that can make both 2D and 3D games. But its 3D capabilities are a bit limited and very advanced.

 

Many people recommend using C++. And many of the greatest 3D games were made with it. And since you already had an introductory course on C++, I don't think you would have a hard time learning one of the best languages out there.

 

XNA is also a good place to start (according to some) and its great for 3D games. And it uses the C# language, which I believe is great for beginners.

 

In conclusion:

If you are really serious about your game idea, then learn a very easy language that you're comfortable with. Then, once you have mastered it, move on to a more advanced language that is great for 3D, like C++.

Edited by Icarius_24

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rnlf_in_space    1894

I started with Ada so... Don't start with Ada biggrin.png

Ada is hard to learn even after you have years of programming experience. So yes, don't start with Ada ;-)

 

Python on the other hand is very nice as a first language. It is simple enough to get started and it doesn't get obsolete once you're good at programming. The way you use python and the features it provides will improve with your abilities.

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Love the concept.  I had a similar idea a while ago, thought it would be cool to have each player performing a different role on a starship co-operatively in realtime, sort of based on the Star Trek universe.  

 

For example, the Helmsman would steer and fire (or even better split that into 2 players roles), the Communications Officer would help send and receive orders to other ships in the area to coordinate, the Engineering Officer would help with damage control, the Captain would help with overall strategy and perhaps fill underling roles when a bridge officer is incapacitated or otherwise too busy, and each role would get a totally different interface.  I never developed the idea but always thought it had some potential.  Not sure if this concept is kind of what you have in mind but good luck regardless, would love to see more true teamwork types of games.

 

In terms of the programming side, I feel it is easy to underestimate how long things take particularly if you are new at programming.  Most aspiring game programmers have this idea that "games are FUN, therefore they must be super quick and easy to create!  I'll just bang out a revolutionary new multiplayer game that is better than Starcraft by myself in a year or two of hard work on the side" and thus they tend to underestimate a realisitic schedule.   Many commercial games have a dozen or more programmers working full time on it (as well as a small army of artists, modelers etc) so you just got to be realistic about things.  That generally means start with a very small game -- complete it -- and work your way to more and more complex projects with more and more team-members.   

 

Good luck!

Edited by starbasecitadel

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minibutmany    1998

I got started in C#, and I think it is really pretty great. Just about any language you choose will be able to create the "game of your dreams", but I think C# stands out for the game you want to make because you can use C# in Unity, which is a fast development environment for 3D games. Learning a language in and out takes a while, and you may be disappointed that you wont be able to dive into your space project right away. Make a few small games, then prototype your project in two dimensions. Once you feel really confident, finish it off in 3D.

which programming language do I need to learn that fits all my needs(and isn't a pain in the ass to learn)?

The only one that isn't a pain to learn(that I have worked with) is Processing, which is based on Java. You can learn the basics in hours, and probably master it in a week, but of course it is limited. It can do 3D graphics(in very few lines of code surprisingly) but it was not built for performance and it isn't Object Oriented, which is a must for a big project like this.

 

Game development is not a "one off" kind of thing, it is a life long hobby that you can keep getting better at if you start small and work your way up. One doesn't learn how to play the piano the day before their recital. 

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Rumsfield    111

Thanks everyone!

 

OK, so everyone seems to be saying this is a HUGE project that I am undertaking, and I need to start small first?

 

Should start off by learning Python to get me into programming and then later move on to C# when I am ready to make the game. Or to save time should I just start learning C#. I get the impression that C# or something like it(i.e. C++), is what I will require to make this game?

 

 

Love the concept.  I had a similar idea a while ago, thought it would be cool to have each player performing a different role on a starship co-operatively in realtime, sort of based on the Star Trek universe.  

 

For example, the Helmsman would steer and fire (or even better split that into 2 players roles), the Communications Officer would help send and receive orders to other ships in the area to coordinate, the Engineering Officer would help with damage control, the Captain would help with overall strategy and perhaps fill underling roles when a bridge officer is incapacitated or otherwise too busy, and each role would get a totally different interface.  I never developed the idea but always thought it had some potential.  Not sure if this concept is kind of what you have in mind but good luck regardless, would love to see more true teamwork types of games.

 

In terms of the programming side, I feel it is easy to underestimate how long things take particularly if you are new at programming.  Most aspiring game programmers have this idea that "games are FUN, therefore they must be super quick and easy to create!  I'll just bang out a revolutionary new multiplayer game that is better than Starcraft by myself in a year or two of hard work on the side" and thus they tend to underestimate a realisitic schedule.   Many commercial games have a dozen or more programmers working full time on it (as well as a small army of artists, modelers etc) so you just got to be realistic about things.  That generally means start with a very small game -- complete it -- and work your way to more and more complex projects with more and more team-members.   

 

Good luck!

 

@starbasecitidel Yes you pretty much nailed my game concept. I believe if done properly, it will be a blast to play!

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minibutmany    1998

Should start off by learning Python to get me into programming and then later move on to C# when I am ready to make the game. Or to save time should I just start learning C#. I get the impression that C# or something like it(i.e. C++), is what I will require to make this game?

 

No need to make a switch. Just choose one that fits you best. Python is perfectly fine, but I recommend C# if you want to use Unity down the road.

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Rumsfield    111

An important question that I forgot to ask... how much will C# cost me? Where can I get it for the best price? I don't have to buy that ridiculously priced Microsoft Visual Studio do I?

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Nicholas Kong    1535

There is an article in this forum that states something similar on the lines of "Use the programming language you are comfortable with". A programming language is a tool.

 

I suggest you do a more simple game project. Learn how to add and draw graphics. Examples such as: how to move an image using your keyboard? How to make things appear using your keyboard? There are open-source game examples you can learn a lot from too. How do they do that? The ideas are all in the examples.

 

Game programming is not that much different from basic game programming. You just need to learn the graphics and gui offered by the programming language.

Edited by warnexus

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Alpha_ProgDes    6921

There is an article in this forum that states something similar on the lines of "Use the programming language you are comfortable with". A programming language is a tool.

 

You rang? :)

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Rumsfield    111

Thanks everyone,

 

I changed my mind, I think I'm going to start with Enigma, that way learning C++ should be less frustrating and I will rip less hair out of my head while learning it. Ha!

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3Ddreamer    3826

Hi,

 

 

An orderly growth in your learning is crucial for maximum efficiency and saving you years of delay.

 

1) Choose a game engine that allows you to develop a game using one language.

2) You will be using that language for the next 1 to 2 years.

3) Make 3 to 5 simple console type 2D games without a game engine by using your language and targeting the Runtime Environment in your client computer which you use.

4) Return to the game engine of your choice and make 3 to 5 simple 2D games. 

5) Begin making 3D games.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines

 

Note:  Early in your first few games you should be on track to start and improve your interface making skills, which is one of the fundamentals of game development and critical for user appeal.

 

If you make each game well, adding new features, then this is the fastest path to becoming a skilled game developer as I outlined here.  In fact it is better than Uni but requires stronger character traits in you.

 

Stay at it and have fun the whole way! smile.png

Edited by 3Ddreamer

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frazchaudhry    1220

This is IDE, not programming language.

I am aware of that, but you should read his question more carefully, he's asking "how much will C# cost me? Where can I get it for the best price? I don't have to buy that ridiculously priced Microsoft Visual Studio do I?"

He's already made his decision regarding the programming language and wants an option that will allow him to code in it cheaply. And for C# Visual C# Express is an excellent choice that won't cost him anything.

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Limecore    105

It is a very subjective question, but if you have never programmed before DO NOT LEARN C++. It will make programming painful for you if you don't know what you are doing, and can easily discourage you.

I personally started with java, then moved to c++ and am only starting to get into gamedev now

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Flapeth    104

Hi,

 

 

An orderly growth in your learning is crucial for maximum efficiency and saving you years of delay.

 

1) Choose a game engine that allows you to develop a game using one language.

2) You will be using that language for the next 1 to 2 years.

3) Make 3 to 5 simple console type 2D games without a game engine by using your language and targeting the Runtime Environment in your client computer which you use.

4) Return to the game engine of your choice and make 3 to 5 simple 2D games. 

5) Begin making 3D games.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines

 

Note:  Early in your first few games you should be on track to start and improve your interface making skills, which is one of the fundamentals of game development and critical for user appeal.

 

If you make each game well, adding new features, then this is the fastest path to becoming a skilled game developer as I outlined here.  In fact it is better than Uni but requires stronger character traits in you.

 

Stay at it and have fun the whole way! smile.png

 

Hello 3Ddreamer,

 

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread at all, but I'm also on topic with the OP.

 

I'm also new to programming, I'm guessing I should start learning Python, but I'm interested in what you said and want to make sure that those "2-3" years you mentioned aren't wasted.

 

As for the list you mentioned, I saw that Minecraft was made using LWJGL, would learning Java and using that Engine be a good first step for a beginner or no?

 

Is there a book or an article that breaks down this whole experience (being a new programmer) better?

 

I'm not sure how the game engine and compiling and programming languages all work together.  I'd just like a simplified introduction or crash course so that I can understand the basics of this world I'm getting my self in to without having to waste time with bad advice or whatever bumps may be in the way.

 

Thank you,

Rob

Edited by Flapeth

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3Ddreamer    3826

Hi,

smile.png

 

 

 

Hi,

 

 

An orderly growth in your learning is crucial for maximum efficiency and saving you years of delay.

 

1) Choose a game engine that allows you to develop a game using one language.

2) You will be using that language for the next 1 to 2 years.

3) Make 3 to 5 simple console type 2D games without a game engine by using your language and targeting the Runtime Environment in your client computer which you use.

4) Return to the game engine of your choice and make 3 to 5 simple 2D games. 

5) Begin making 3D games.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines

 

Note:  Early in your first few games you should be on track to start and improve your interface making skills, which is one of the fundamentals of game development and critical for user appeal.

 

If you make each game well, adding new features, then this is the fastest path to becoming a skilled game developer as I outlined here.  In fact it is better than Uni but requires stronger character traits in you.

 

Stay at it and have fun the whole way! smile.png

 

Hello 3Ddreamer,

 

Sorry if I'm hijacking this thread at all, but I'm also on topic with the OP.

 

I'm also new to programming, I'm guessing I should start learning Python, but I'm interested in what you said and want to make sure that those "2-3" years you mentioned aren't wasted.  No 2-3 years was mentioned, so re-read my post, please.  I did recommend 1 to 2 years with your first language which was chosen by what game engine you selected.  How much total time from start to professional level depends on many factors including talent, time available, difficulty of the technology selected, and so forth.  Your language should be chosen based on the game engine that you select, in my opinion-for almost all newbies. Stay in that language until you get good at it before going deep into your second language in my opinion.

 

As for the list you mentioned, I saw that Minecraft was made using LWJGL, would learning Java and using that Engine be a good first step for a beginner or no?  Yes - Everything on this list would be good for learning purposes:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines

 

Is there a book or an article that breaks down this whole experience (being a new programmer) better?  Chose a game engine and seek the information from the community forums of that game engine.

 

I'm not sure how the game engine and compiling and programming languages all work together.  I'd just like a simplified introduction or crash course so that I can understand the basics of this world I'm getting my self in to without having to waste time with bad advice or whatever bumps may be in the way.  The development pipeline for each game engine has a unique combination of technology and methods for the most part.  No universal formula exists across all game engines in regard to these matters of pipeline requirements.  Seek the game engine community forums of your choice.  Threads here at gamedev are very valuable in helping you get basics, some having tutorials.

 

Thank you,

Rob

 

 

Rob,

 

 

Take my advice in the dark red text above here.

 

The more research that you do by looking for threads about a wide range of game development topics, then the better you will be.  There are really few shortcuts and mostly just digging hard for things.

 

Research is the backbone of game development, so get used to it. smile.png

 

 

Clinton

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