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black_mage_s

RPG Battle systems

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Is it my imagination, or do all battle systems in rpg''s that arent real time seem to be very simaler? What if you had a nearly real time combat sytem that was still turn based? ie You have an energy bar that, when it reaches a certain point, you can use certain attacks, like this - level 1 - Attack, Item, Run - level 2 - Attack, Item, Run, Magic - level 3 - Attack, Item, Run, Magic, Summon - level 4 - Attack, Item, Run, Magic, Summon, Summon X - level 5 - Attack, Item, Run, Magic, Summon, Summon X, Fury of course, you have to know what Summon X and Fury are Summon X - When you normally summon, the character who summoned vanishes (like in FF8, but this is only one character) and a Creature not mucch bigger than them takes his place, who fights along side you, and you can command. When you use summon X, all of your characters vanish and you control one REALLY big summon who is roughly 4 times bigger and more powerful than the normal summon. Fury - Unleashes all of your power at once. All magic and attack, depending on how much MP you have left. of course, you cant just sit around and wait for this, you will be attacked with each passing level, but you dont have to wait for a turn to pass before the attack is carried out (ie FF6 - FF9) so what do you think?

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What about :

move, protect, attack, move, reach safe position, cast spell, move, ...

something like realtime control of a single character like outcast ?



-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

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Actually the system your proposing is a lot like the one used by Square''s Game Parasite Eve (The first one, not the second). In that system you run around the screen dodging attacks by your opponent, when your initiative bar is fully charged your action menu opens up and you can attack, use items etc.

I really liked the Parasite Eve battle system, but Square did ditch in the second game in favour of more Resident Evilish game play.

Try out Parasite Eve if you can. It will give you a chance to try out a not standard RPG battle system plus its just a cool game =p

- Zhypoh!

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I played parasite EVE.

I prefer Grandia 2 battle system for multi character control, or outcast system for single character control.

The gameplay is also contained in a dynamic combat system that allow great and fine control instead of menu popping :p

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

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No movement.
You stay still, otherwise coding in the summon X command would be crazy, since there would have to be animations to make the summons move about.

Summon X is contained in the summon magic
Fury is contained in the attack menu
just to save on menu space.


Posted by: Ingenu

What about :

move, protect, attack, move, reach safe position, cast spell, move, ...

something like realtime control of a single character like outcast ?


Ugh! Now thats the kind of thing i was trying to avoid. I want it to be turn based but have some freedom of time.

You can attack at level 1. Just a generic attack. Nothing special. Or you could run or use an item. Level 2 takes more time to get to, but you gain the use of magic. With level 3 summoning, level 4 summon x, level 5 fury.

spells will be cast instantly since you arlready had to wait, but when you call the summon, his appearance costs a turn. Summons also have access to all of there attacks at once, but they cost SP (summon points) to use.

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Why do you copy Final Fantasy ?

INNOVATE !

Do something new, combine elements of many CRPG battle systems...

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

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How about having so the characters can move around in a hex grid or something... They can only use melee attacks against enemies standing next to them.

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I find grid based movement is sometimes a bot preponderous, and given today''s technological fancies why not just make the placement accurate to the pixel?

A very underused element of combat is positioning for defence, if you have two warriors and a mage, you''ll want to guard the mage until he/she can get the massively deadly spell out. At which point you''ll want the warriors to run like nances so they don''t get fried. Friendly fire is a very useful element for teaching people efficient strategies in combat.

George D. Filiotis

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How about beeing able to take advantage of the terrain. Placing the mage''s on high position gives them better control (view/range).

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Ingenu
Why do you copy Final Fantasy ?

INNOVATE !

Do something new, combine elements of many CRPG battle systems...

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-



WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
Final fantasy did this:
FF1: Wait your turn, select, do
FF2: See above
FF3: Same yet again
FF4: OoH! Battles with that time meter that charges up before you do squat.
FF6: Yup. Same again.
FF7: Im noticing a pattern.
FF8: Wait your turn AND wait for the summon
FF9: I dont believe in FF9
FF10: The closest i come to this is the fact that the summon can fight by your command

The only thing ripping off final fantasy here is final fantasy.

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People will probably get kinda pissed if, say, all of thier characters are dead but one, and that one is at, say 10/100 HP, and they have to wait to pop a potion. Of course, "they should have anticipated.." you may say, but what happens when you are at 40/100, and the enemy gets some sort of critical hit, and knocks you down to 10? Now, instead of waiting to attack, you are panicking because you have to wait to get that potion, and that enemy gets another turn.

Or, you ran out of potions two battles back, and now you are waiting 3 turns to get your healing magic out... you see my point.

Z.

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quote:
Original post by Zaei
People will probably get kinda pissed if, say, all of thier characters are dead but one, and that one is at, say 10/100 HP, and they have to wait to pop a potion. Of course, "they should have anticipated.." you may say, but what happens when you are at 40/100, and the enemy gets some sort of critical hit, and knocks you down to 10? Now, instead of waiting to attack, you are panicking because you have to wait to get that potion, and that enemy gets another turn.

Or, you ran out of potions two battles back, and now you are waiting 3 turns to get your healing magic out... you see my point.

Z.


I''ll chalk this confusion up to my horrible explanation of the system.

When you fight an enemy, the same charging/wait times will apply to it. it cant just attack every time a level passes. if an enemy wants to use an attack, he must wait. if he wants to use magic, he still has to wait, and he also must wait if he wants to use a special attack..

of course, the enemy can use critical atacks, but he has to wait until level 4, and even then, there is only a 1 in 25 chance of it working (thats only a working number though.)

i found it a bit annoying that in most rpgs, the rules for you dont apply to the enemy. that was really annoying. and as for getting pissed you have to wait for magic, when you cast a spell in FF6, you had to wait a turn before it happened. Im just cahnging the order slightly. Now you wait till before you cast a spell, but it happens instantly.

FMG is my RPG

FF6: Cast, Wait, Action
FMG: Wait, Cast, Action

Now that isnt too bad.

FF8: Summon, Wait, Action, Vanishes
FMG: Wait, Summon, Action, Vanishes when you want or at end of battle.

so lets think, you guys keep comparing me to Final Fantasy, and then critisizing the way i do this, when in fact, it is basically just as effiectiant as an FF6/FF8/FF10 hybrid.

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I think that the communal I is actually trying to tell you that your basing your combat system on Action/Wait/Action/Wait sequences and the differences between your system and the FF systems are trivial.

Try to come away from:

Timer counts, when it reaches the magic value a menu pops up and you choose what your character does.

Maybe you could have a timer that rises continuously and if you want to do some action you just subtract it''s time cost from the timer. That way you could have one character save up alot of time and unleash a massive spell at the end of a fight, while your other characters make little swipes every four seconds.

The thing that bugs me is not your ideas about what abilities should exist and how much time it should take to perform them, it''s the waiting to move that you''ve copied from FF.

George D. Filiotis

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yep that''s the point.

You could replace the action selection mechanism by a a sequence of command.

A : Attack.
X+Y, A, B : cast fireball
...
if you combine that with a system enhancing spell damage when cast often you''ll end with a player using and learning only a few spells, for example.


Anyway you can do as you want, you''re the game designer, but as fellow game designers, we just tell you : innovate !


-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

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I say, first thing you do is throw out hit points, experience, levels, magic, and die rolls.

Now, you have a clean slate. Now, build your system from there, thinking up new ways to do and represent things. Resist adding in the standard things listed above until you absoulutely determine you must add them.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Symphonic
Try to come away from:

Maybe you could have a timer that rises continuously and if you want to do some action you just subtract it''s time cost from the timer. That way you could have one character save up alot of time and unleash a massive spell at the end of a fight, while your other characters make little swipes every four seconds.



thats actually not that bad of an idea. it doesnt vere off too much from my idea, yet still has enough difference and improvement.

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BISHOP: Me like clean slate idea.

The goal of the design should be to create an interesting, exhilariting, logical (does not necessarily mean realistic) way of doing combat.

Use such things as hitpoints to solve problems with your design. For example, if you find that you simply can''t find a graphical representation of injuries, use some sort of hitpoint bar to tell a player how hurt he or his/her opponent is.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by bishop_pass
I say, first thing you do is throw out hit points, experience, levels, magic, and die rolls.
Now, you have a clean slate. Now, build your system from there, thinking up new ways to do and represent things. Resist adding in the standard things listed above until you absoulutely determine you must add them.

An RPG needs these things. I cannot think of one that doesn''t. Granted, some RPGs might call them something else, or mask them behind another name; they''re still in there, that is what makes it an RPG.

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
An RPG needs these things. I cannot think of one that doesn''t. Granted, some RPGs might call them something else, or mask them behind another name; they''re still in there, that is what makes it an RPG.


Says who?

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
An RPG needs these things. I cannot think of one that doesn''t. Granted, some RPGs might call them something else, or mask them behind another name; they''re still in there, that is what makes it an RPG.


Bah, people are too stuck up on the traditional hp, xp, and magic points. All you really need for a rpg is one character that player can control directly, one game setting, and have the character goes through some kind of development. This is the basic, everything else is just fancy mojos.

There''s even a easier way to represent hp without requiring a hp bar. Just have the character''s color fade (or change) when the hp drops below a certain level.

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Several methods to avoid hp:
* Avoid it entirely (ie: one hit kills)

* Use random factor (every attack has a slight random value attached to it. Ie: a sword has a one in three chance of killig your opponent in the first hit)

* Use an endurance meter. When you''re hit with a weapon the endurance meter is reset. And the lower value of it, the greater the chance of a weapon randomly killing you upon hitting (or inflicting maximum damage if you don''t use One-Hit-Kills). The endurance meter regenerates at quick speed. This means that the first hit is likely to just wound your enemy slightly.

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quote:
Original post by Ganryu
Several methods to avoid hp:
* Avoid it entirely (ie: one hit kills)

* Use random factor (every attack has a slight random value attached to it. Ie: a sword has a one in three chance of killig your opponent in the first hit)

* Use an endurance meter. When you''re hit with a weapon the endurance meter is reset. And the lower value of it, the greater the chance of a weapon randomly killing you upon hitting (or inflicting maximum damage if you don''t use One-Hit-Kills). The endurance meter regenerates at quick speed. This means that the first hit is likely to just wound your enemy slightly.


1. One hit kills? ONE HIT KILLS? Now that, no matter how you phrase it will probably be the worst ideas in an RPG. People were saying my idea could be frustrating, but think about that! You go out into the world map and your killed by the same damn rabbit over and over again.

2. Thats not to hot of an idea either. Yeah, hit the robot with a sword and there is a one in three chance he''ll explode into millions of peices of shrapnel.

3. Not that bad of an idea, but it seems like its the same as the HP idea, but it recharges, and you have a one in 3 chance of dying if your HP is zero.

BAH!

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Qualify hits as to the type of damage they do: dehabilitating, severing, internal injuring, crushing. Each type of hit has a chance of occuring based on each player''s agility, armor, weapon type, skill, etc.

You can die of blood loss, trauma to the brain, shock, or massive internal injury. The more you are dehabilitated, the more easily the striking blow can be made to you. There really is no such thing as hit points.

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Guest Anonymous Poster
quote:
Original post by Mooglez
Bah, people are too stuck up on the traditional hp, xp, and magic points... There''s even a easier way to represent hp without requiring a hp bar. Just have the character''s color fade (or change) when the hp drops below a certain level.

Hmmm... That would seem to be HP again, just with a different way of showing it.

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