What SPECIFICALLY do the people want changed?

We are tired of not having a decent school/daycare to our little sons and have to pay half our paycheck for a private one. That and many many more reasons.

Not sure I follow. Your daughters already get decent education? Or is it that you only want your sons to get one?

We are tired of paying taxes as a 1st world country and live in a 3rd world country. We are tired of having to pay a private hospital plan because there isn't a public one decent enough (and one you won't die for third party reasons not your illness is decent enough for me). We are tired of getting huge lines on bus stations, get into a over capacity bus and yet pay a ridiculous high fee. We are tired of not having a decent school/daycare to our little sons and have to pay half our paycheck for a private one. That and many many more reasons.

OK, but frankly, that's alike in almost every place in the world. We sure pay 1st world taxes in Germany, and our scholar system is ridiculous. In hospital, you wait up to 10 hours if you're unlucky even if you pay cash. I've had this happen with my mother only 4 months ago, and I'm not precisely the average pauper. I dread to think what people who only have the statutory insurance get...

Of course that is not surprising in any way, either. Government has taken the piss out of physicians for decades, the job is unrewarding and outright inhuman. Every single one who had any way of doing something different (including me) has quit his job years ago. So, naturally, if you have to go to hospital, that's bad luck for you.

It is often claimed (and equally often denied by the government) that we have a two-class health system. Of course we do, because what the statutory insurance is paying is ridiculous. Unless you cheat, it's less than what the interventions cost. Which means two things: First, everyone is cheating, and second, private patients are the better humans.

Sadly, in the mean time, there's sometimes not even enough physicians left for those with deep pockets.

A bus/metro ticket from here to downtown (10 minute cruise) costs me 4,80 euros single fare (that's roughly 14 reals). Taxi costs about 30 euros.

The average gross salary according to governmental propaganda is 2,200 euros, but if you are not part of the "top 10%" (the top 10% that own 90%) it's much closer to half that.

With all tax and compulsatory insurances (which the average man can't escape either), the average man has to make a living with considerably less than 800 per month (with rent being upwards of 500). I pay around 60 euros per week for food in the supermarket (for 2 people). No expensive stuff, no exotic stuff. Now don't ask me how those people raise 2 or 3 children with the salaries they get. They must be stealing or something, no idea.

In contrast, those benefit scroungers of which we sadly have more than enough are paid not only their rent and all insurances, but also most things you need for a living (like a laundry machine, or a tv), and get 500 per month of pocket money in addition (so they can buy drugs, and whatever).

And, as main point in their manifesto for the upcoming election, the communists want to raise that because it's still not enough (also, they want to lower the retirement age by 2 years, this is interesting, seeing how there is already not enough money to pay pensions as it is). Of course, taxes for people who work are way too low, too.

In other words, if you work, you're a stupid idiot, and you're fucked all over.

And sadly, because communists and socialists keep the people stupid by driving the scholar system against the wall, there are always enough people who are stupid enough to elect them, too. Thing is, if you do what they're planning (massive surplus tax on corporations and top earners), all that will happen is that they will leave the country.

The French gay-marriage-president has already demonstrated this, we all know the result. The rich go abroad, and the poor get poorer and unemployed. Meanwhile the Chinese are buying all the vine yards and the industry. But hey, no problem, at least there's gay marriage, congratulations to your success, Mr. Hollande. A a nation once known for his men and for its wine, where has it gone. You better start learning kantonese.

Now, had you said something like "It sucks in Brazil because drug cartels keep shooting at people in the streets", I might have agreed. But the things you mentioned are just the same everywhere. Or, possibly worse.

Buster2000, on 18 Jun 2013 - 2:53 PM, said:

This is Irrelevant. The violent protests worked and brought about change. The fact that the outcome was bad does not change the fact.

It is greatly relevant. Following your logic, if you're my neighbour, and you do BBQ in your garden, while I'm on a diet... I should jump over the fence and crush your skull with a brick. Which is, arguably, effective and "works fine". Except now I get to eat your BBQ...

See how the logic doesn't hold? The French Revolution was triggered because the rulers behaved like pigs and while they were eating from golden plates, the people was starving. And stupid whores like Marie Antoinette making statements like "if the people doesn't have bread, let them eat cake" didn't help either.
So the people took harsh action, but harsh action rarely ends in something good. After the revolution, they were even more hungry (which was the reason for revolting) and they were even less free. One wrong word, and you lost your head. It was never that bad when they still had a king.

You saw the same thing much more recently, too. With Sarkozy, almost the same thing happened as 220 years before. People were somewhat unhappy, and the president behaved like a jerk at several catchpenny occasions.

So the people took harsh action and elected the exact opposite -- Hollande, only to finally get rid of Sarkozy. Turned out, within weeks, that Hollande was a total failure. Which, of course, everyone had known before. But now he's ruining the country for another 4 years, and there's no way to get rid of him.
And yes, it was the same in Germany with Kohl, then Schröder, then Merkel. Kohl pushed through the Reunion. We didn't want it, and the others didn't want it either. We're unhappy ever since, and the others are too. One country, are you kidding me? So, the people took harsh action and elected Schröder, who turned out being a total fuckhead. What a surprise, nobody saw that coming. So Schröder sold us to the Russians, and thus the people took harsh action again, and elected Merkel ... I can't say what I think about that or I'll land in jail.

People are just too stupid to govern themselves, democracy doesn't work. But then, what does?

The biggest example of a violent protest is War and the people who win a war get what they want.

No, Sir. War is an example of vicious people driving the innocent to death. War has never given anyone (in the people) what they wanted, nor has war ever served a good or just cause or made anything better. War is about what one or two power hungry villains want, nothing more. Well, sometimes it's about economy too.

It's never about people or about what the people wants, unless you consider death and suffering as a "goal" (also, it's never about Freedom with a capital F, and it's never about God).

Give me an example of a situation where you cant protest peacefully

How about this one:

Man inspires new form of protest in Turkey simply by standing

If you are ready to risk your life for change by committing acts of violence, are you ready to risk your life for change by potentially having violence inflicted upon you? One man doing it might be nothing. But what about 100 or a 1000?

Thankfully I don't live in the situation that you do so maybe I'm just an idealist. But in a violent protest, it seems to me, you open the door for opportunists to take advantage of the situation while people are blinded by their anger and emotions. Replacing one group of opportunists with another isn't going to fix anything.

And stupid whores like Marie Antoinette making statements like "if the people doesn't have bread, let them eat cake" didn't help either.

Not to detract from the rest of your post, but in the interests of historical accuracy I'd like to point out that there's no evidence that she actually said that.

I live in Brazil, and I can that brazilians always thinks that in Europe or in the US everything is perfect. But in reality many doesn't know how other countries really work. As it was already been said by samoth, the german education system by far more excludent than ours (AFAIK if you don't have good grades in the first 4 years of school, you're bound to go to a kind of school where you can't go to the university). I've been told (by foreigners) that São Paulo's subway system is quite good, but if you ask a brazillian, he/she'll always tell you that the system is a big piece of crap. The last time I was in Berlin, I paid 2,4 Euro a subway ticket, way more expensive than the fare down here (even with the price raise).

Those protest are by no means unjustified. There're serious problems down here like the income disparity, corruption, administrative problems. The government always focusing on tourism and commodities instead of building a competitive industry. Even so, I just can't condone violence as non-violent protest can be very effective when it affects one money making ability.

What is really troubling is the World Cup and the Olympics. The government is expending like hell on things that are not a priority. More so, FIFA is pushing some demands that go against brazillian citizens rights and our government are complying with.

E.g : There's a law that ensures that the elderly and students should paid half price when attending cultural and sport events, FIFA has been pushing to revoke this law. It's also against the law to sell alcohol in stadiums (ok, it's not a citizen's right per see, but a question of state sovereignty, which is also troubling), but FIFA made lobby to revoke this law also.

It is greatly relevant. Following your logic, if you're my neighbour, and you do BBQ in your garden, while I'm on a diet... I should jump over the fence and crush your skull with a brick. Which is, arguably, effective and "works fine". Except now I get to eat your BBQ...

Yes by my logic this would stop me from having a BBQ. If you asked me in a non violent mannor not to have a BBQ because you are on a diet I would say sorry but, no thats not my problem. My point is that you would have to resort to violent or offensive means to cause me to stop.

I never said the outcome would be good for any party involved but I still maintain the only protest that brings about change are ones that involve direct action

No, Sir. War is an example of vicious people driving the innocent to death. War has never given anyone (in the people) what they wanted, nor has war ever served a good or just cause or made anything better. War is about what one or two power hungry villains want, nothing more. Well, sometimes it's about economy too.

But the viscious people got what they wanted. So for them War worked. Yes thousands of inocents die but that is irrelavant to the vocal people who insisted on the war in the first place.

You are arguing over the outcome which is often worse than the people expected but that still does not detract from the fact that if they do nothing then nothing will happen.