Career Advice after a bad job....

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20 comments, last by Orymus3 10 years, 9 months ago


Tom, I agree that I made a mistake, but I did so for a right reason....yet I was let go for that....I suppose that is what I am hung up on, how do I explain that.....

I started to write an argument and point out that you made more than one mistake, but then I read further into the thread and found this:

Well, now that I read back my own post, I suppose I am experiencing hostility myself, but I think I am justified, of course, there are always two sides to every story.....

I suppose I am just letting my frustration out, I suppose the advice I have had so far has a good foundation, let it go, better myself and continue life.....easier said than done though at this point. I thank you gamedev community for responding so far. Perhaps I am being harder on myself than I should be, but who is better to do that.....

Very mixed message you're giving us. You think you're justified, well that's wrong. You're being harder on yourself than you should be? It doesn't sound like it. Not if you still think you did not make any mistakes.

If you really think you were unjustly let go, you should get an attorney and discuss with him or her whether you have grounds for a lawsuit against your former employer. But I think you exhibited poor judgment (based on what you wrote above).

And besides your judgment, your attitude about that job sounds lacking as well. I maintain that you need to do much more soul-searching so you can become a highly valuable employee to someone in the future. The sooner you see your flaws, the sooner you'll be able to effectively seek a new job.

And as for what jms said about keeping distance from abused women is right. Give the lady the phone numbers of battered women shelters, battered women protection agencies, etc. Give her the phone numbers repeatedly and it's up to her to make a call. She needs to seek help on her own. Look up "white knight syndrome" and be afraid!

-- Tom Sloper -- sloperama.com

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I agree with everyone's comments.

I think the first thing to do is disconnect the emotional element and look back at what actually happened (not how you felt about it) and what you could have done differently.

I think you are also overlooking that looking at it from the outside, it looks like you did something unethical, which led you to discover that your boss did something unethical, but that what you did looks a lot worse. To me anyway, peeking at your boss's private stuff for over a year and then showing it to a co-worker you had a thing for is much worse than being lazy and risking a marginal chance of a lawsuit (if it was an internal document, much higher risk if it was published somewhere public). From your writing at least, it sounds like you made the decision to read them long before you found anything suspicious, too.

Unauthorized reading of the private communications of your boss is something you should have never considered. You should have resigned long before you went there, honestly. Quitting is an entirely reasonable solution in the business world, especially if you don't have the power to fix the problems, and cannot convince those that do to do anything. The other path would have been to stop caring about anything but not getting fired, while looking for another job.

-Mark the Artist

Digital Art and Technical Design
Developer Journal

By the way, just to be clear, my own being critical here isn't meant to be a judgement of you, just a judgement of your actions. Your actions were inappropriate, but I can sympathize with your being caught in a bad professional situation, and wanting desperately to make it better. I can sympathize that you wanted to help this lady, and that this brought emotion and drama into the workplace, and ultimately brought to light what would be your undoing. I don't get the impression that you set out to be a sneaky, kniveing, underhanded guy.

I would take head of Tom's warning of "white knight syndrome" -- To a degree, I've been that guy before, and while it may seem the "one true path", that path tends to be self-justifying in the mind of the knight, even when his path is clearly twisted to outside observers. Because of that self-justifying tendency, knights can be manipulated by outside actors, as they are compelled to fight every dragon--real, imagined, or made-up.

throw table_exception("(? ???)? ? ???");


First I guess I should preface that this may be a long post....I am not sure...

The magic of a post allows you to write certain lines at the start of the post, despite being written last. By the time you hit send, you should be sure...

But overall, I'd focus my next interview around ground-level knowledge. You've discussed imaging. Most firms use that, but its a striking example where you can show your value as an IT and demonstrate your former boss' lack of foresight. Bear in mind that the interview is about making you look like an interesting candidate to your future employer, not prove a point regarding your former employer.

Avoid this one bad reflex: don't try to explain/prove that you were unjustly let go. To your future employer, this may or may not be relevant, but let them direct the discussion and answer accordingly. A lot of candidates I've interviewed have had trouble with their past employers, and letting them talk about it unnecessarily revealed reasons for me not to hire them. If you stick to the facts and to the questions you're asked, and don't have an urge to add to it unnecessary tidbits of info (as is present in your original post), then I'd say you actually get a decent chance of landing another job.

Truth be told, you've worked 4 years, did stuff during these 4 years, and have learned a lot. To many employers, the actual situation that led to you being fired will appear minor. Why? You've been there 4 years! People that really can't be worked with generally get fired within months. The one thing I'd really be worried about someone being fired after 4 years would be possibly theft or stuff like that. Sure, reading the logs wasn't wise (and no, this is NEVER justified), but it could be worse.

Adding my take:

You were there four years. It may not be ideal experience and it may have ended badly in the end, but it shows you can hold a job in the field. Overall that is a good thing.

Be prepared to answer questions on why you left your last job. Keep your answers very short and truthful. Very short, as in five words or less. Be prepared with two-sentence answers in case they press you. Keep those answers short but honest.

For someone in IT it can be appropriate to go through logs, but never on your own initiative. When the executives or HR come to you with a documented request to give them ammunition to fire someone, in that case go through the logs and keep it limited to the request. If they want logs of chat sessions give them over, but don't go through email or other sources unless directed. Also, IT has a lot of information at their disposal, learn to keep your mouth shut.

There are other life lessons in your posts, but you keep trying to justify them. Many of your actions you posted cannot be justified in a professional environment. Take it as an opportunity to increase your maturity. Admit to yourself that you could have done better, learn from it, and move on.

I do not think you have significantly harmed your chances of getting your next job. You were there four years, and that is something of note in the field. Some places have turnovers of two years or less. Other places routinely go with one-year contracts. As long as you learn your lessons, that is a pretty good run for a first job in IT.

I have been in your shoes before. When you go for your next interview, let them know straight out what happen, and also make your point clear that you are a very good

candidate and how you can help their company. Do not mop over it or say anything bad about the last employer. You actually have a leg up, because you were at the company for 4 years. That says a lot.


When you go for your next interview, let them know straight out what happen,

The sooner the better. You don't want the interview to "go your way" and let them discover the ugly truth, leaving them with a sour aftertaste.

Display your colors clearly, and buildup from there. It's an uphill battle, yes, but the inclination isn't that steep. Your 4 years do play for a lot here too.

I had a colleague who used to "spy" for the boss

The boss never asked him to do this, but he found it interesting to listen ...

I worked closely with the spy and he would report my conversations to the boss

Over time a clear picture emerged:

- me: could keep a secret, wouldn't hurt anybody

- him: deliberately shared secrets in order to hurt others

Anyway it was fun feeding him "secrets" to repeat to the boss ...

after a couple of years passed I was promoted to a highly paid manager position

and he was still sweeping the floor, earning 1/5 of my salary

if you spy and tell stories about Person A to Person B

Person B will expect you to do the same to them ...

Hey, keep in touch with her. Since both of you are fired, maybe both of you can be good friends after all.

About Job, they come and go. 6 months to 1 year later it will not matter. And you can always find work and also do game projects. Might as well join a offbeat game Dev group. Say no to drugs. Peace. For change, personal tutoring for professional IT classes is a great option.


Hey, keep in touch with her. Since both of you are fired, maybe both of you can be good friends after all.
I strongly suggest against that.

Previously "Krohm"

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