Why no grid-based first person "dungeon crawlers" in a sci-fi setting?

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13 comments, last by c-Row 10 years, 9 months ago

Well, topic says it all. During a Grimrock session, I wondered why there are so little games like it set in a sci-fi/cyberpunk setting while there are more first person fantasy dungeon crawlers than you could shake a stick at. The only notable and ancient exceptions I could come think of are Whale's Voyage and Hired Guns.

Do you see any problems which the premise? What would it need to convince you to play such a game?

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I honestly think that Sci-Fi was just late to the party on that one. Fantasy was established with the Ultima/Bards Tale/Wizardry series early on. Then technology quickly leaped forward so that gaming wasn't limited to grid-based maps anymore. (Stonekeep?) I don't see any problems with the premise. It could work well if done right, but that's true for anything, really.

The original System Shock used grid based maps, but the player's movement was not restricted to the 4 cardinal directions. Just sayin'... it can be done.

Bottom line is that I'd play a Sci-Fi grid-based game without much convincing. If it's any good, I'll play it to the end.

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Meatsack raises an interesting point with the history aspect. I was thinking more along the lines of the environment vs. the tools you want to use in science fiction. Firearms and such lend themselves to long range and more open spaces. Furthermore, when most people think of "dungeon crawlers" they literally think of some dank hole in the ground with lots of twisting stone passageways - not a lot of tech for a scifi game to explore.

Of course, that is all very much subjective and you could change/fix all those problems. I could certainly see a scifi roguelike being popular.

Though on another note, Space Hulk and other WH40k type scenarios very much resemble scifi dungeon crawls. A lot of inside environments from 40k - be they ship corridors or the confines of some massive planetary installation - are claustrophobic, twisted, and most importantly filled with monsters.

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I see a problem with first-person view in games with a prevalence of very powerful ranged attacks (rocket launchers, beam rifles etc.): losing party members because you forgot a corridor or didn't turn around every turn is Not Fun. First person shooters avert the problem by not having to worry about many people and by general spatial awareness of where enemy fire could come from, top-down or isometric turn based games (including Space Hulk and its computer adaptations) let you see everywhere without accidental blind spots.

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Furthermore, when most people think of "dungeon crawlers" they literally think of some dank hole in the ground with lots of twisting stone passageways - not a lot of tech for a scifi game to explore.
... Space Hulk and other WH40k type scenarios very much resemble scifi dungeon crawls. A lot of inside environments from 40k - be they ship corridors or the confines of some massive planetary installation - are claustrophobic, twisted, and most importantly filled with monsters.

I'm pretty sure in the early 90's there was a grid-based, first person, 40k Space Hulk dungeon crawler ;)
That whole genre is pretty dead/dated nowadays though -- the modern equivalent would just be a sci-fi FPS, like natural selection 2, etc.
To stick with the old-school genre, you'd have to have been a fan of it, and if the genre happened to be full of fantasy games, then there's a good chance you're also a fantasy fan ;)

Furthermore, when most people think of "dungeon crawlers" they literally think of some dank hole in the ground with lots of twisting stone passageways - not a lot of tech for a scifi game to explore.
... Space Hulk and other WH40k type scenarios very much resemble scifi dungeon crawls. A lot of inside environments from 40k - be they ship corridors or the confines of some massive planetary installation - are claustrophobic, twisted, and most importantly filled with monsters.

I'm pretty sure in the early 90's there was a grid-based, first person, 40k Space Hulk dungeon crawler ;)
That whole genre is pretty dead/dated nowadays though -- the modern equivalent would just be a sci-fi FPS, like natural selection 2, etc.
To stick with the old-school genre, you'd have to have been a fan of it, and if the genre happened to be full of fantasy games, then there's a good chance you're also a fantasy fan ;)

There was both a board game and a PC game. Played the PC game, though I was young at the time that I couldn't get very far in it. No trigger discipline when the baddies showed up - blew all my best weaponry right away. I should track that game down again and give it another try.

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There were a few of these back in the days of the Amiga and the game Captive springs to mind. Not seen one since though apart from of course system shock..etc

Probably not a huge factor but sci-fi concepts age in a way that fantasy does not, which makes it hard to build a common vocabulary and immersive experience.

A poorly rendered, low-res cave would still be recognizable to me as a cave and I would be able to get on with it. It's much harder for me to will myself into believing a similar backdrop is a "good enough" representation of what the future will be like. Not to mention video games became big alongside some pretty way-of-life-changingly-transformative technology. The 70's and 80's saw a lot of futuristic fantasies become real, stripping the impact from their presence in a game. Wizardry has not seen such rapid and massive development since video games became popular.

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I see a problem with first-person view in games with a prevalence of very powerful ranged attacks (rocket launchers, beam rifles etc.): losing party members because you forgot a corridor or didn't turn around every turn is Not Fun. First person shooters avert the problem by not having to worry about many people and by general spatial awareness of where enemy fire could come from, top-down or isometric turn based games (including Space Hulk and its computer adaptations) let you see everywhere without accidental blind spots.

That's an interesting point indeed - hadn't thought of that yet. Ranged attacks are included in fantasy crawlers as well, but they usually don't cover a range as large as futuristic weaponry. Maybe less open spaces would solve this issue?

Furthermore, when most people think of "dungeon crawlers" they literally think of some dank hole in the ground with lots of twisting stone passageways - not a lot of tech for a scifi game to explore.
... Space Hulk and other WH40k type scenarios very much resemble scifi dungeon crawls. A lot of inside environments from 40k - be they ship corridors or the confines of some massive planetary installation - are claustrophobic, twisted, and most importantly filled with monsters.

I'm pretty sure in the early 90's there was a grid-based, first person, 40k Space Hulk dungeon crawler ;)

Ah, how did I forget that one? wacko.png

Probably not a huge factor but sci-fi concepts age in a way that fantasy does not, which makes it hard to build a common vocabulary and immersive experience.

A poorly rendered, low-res cave would still be recognizable to me as a cave and I would be able to get on with it. It's much harder for me to will myself into believing a similar backdrop is a "good enough" representation of what the future will be like. Not to mention video games became big alongside some pretty way-of-life-changingly-transformative technology. The 70's and 80's saw a lot of futuristic fantasies become real, stripping the impact from their presence in a game. Wizardry has not seen such rapid and massive development since video games became popular.

No offense, but I think this is kind of silly. I don't think that technological changes or evolving understanding of science is really important to this sort of game. Sci-fi as a setting can work whether it's a 50's-style sci-fi or 80's-style sci-fi. The important point is creating a setting and sticking with it. Look at recent/upcoming releases: Farcry Blood Dragon takes a very 80s approach to sci-fi and nails it. The upcoming Shadowrun Returns takes on the 90s cyberpunk sci-fi setting and it looks amazing. Remember, sci-fi is just science fiction--fiction that is focused on science and its impacts on the world. It doesn't necessarily mean futuristic.

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