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Eamonn Dev Rea

Unity What's your opinion on Game Makers?

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I have very strong feelings for "Game Makers", some of which include "GameMaker", "Scratch", "Construct 2" and "GameSalad". I'm not against all Game Creators, the only 2 I'm not against are "UDK" and "Unreal Engine", because the amount of code involved to make graphics that HD would be phenomenal, so I understand why companies use them.

 

I am against, however, every other game maker in existence. Yes, I know they are not 100% game makers, but there is little code involved, and that get's on my nerves a lot. What I don't understand is: If you're not going to make a super HD game, why would you not want to fully code a game? Is it due to people being lazy? I know some schools teach Scratch, which I thing is WRONG. It's not good to teach people how to use makers. You should be teaching code. If people want to use game makers, then they shouldn't be making games(again, not including stuff like UDK). I don't see the point in making a game if you're not going to code it. Instead of teaching Scratch, why not teach Python? Instead of teaching GameSalad, teach a better language.

 

Now, what really get's on my nerves is that people thing they're coding when they are using D&D stuff. There is a place I used to go to called "CoderDojo". They taught GameMaker and AppInventer. Now, how in the WORLD is that coding? You aren't sitting at an IDE and typing code, you're dragging and dropping. They taught Python, but you had to ask and they said "Coding? Why would you want to do that? Are you sure you want to do it?". That made me want to punch someone in the face. The people there that taught Python were planning on teaching C++, and agreed with me that GameMaker is wrong.

 

I'm going to state my opinion. It might not be right, but I want to express it:

 

GameMaker, Scratch, and every other game maker(once again, other then UDK and Unreal Engine) should be shut down, along with the companies that develop them. People should not be using little code. They should be using FULL code. The fun part about coding is sitting at an IDE and typing for hours and hours on end. That's what makes programming fun. You should be forced to code. Yes, you can argue you are still "cheating" by letting the language get compiled into Assembly or Binary. You can argue that, but I'm not the one dragging and dropping boxes into a window and clicking on sprites to make a game. In my opinion, the companies should be shut down, along with their engines. I'm not against the people that use them, I'm against the companies that develop them.

 

I am aware that GameMaker has GME, but who's going to use that when you can D&D?

 

I also have a few questions. I've seen a lot of people say that coding is dying. It will only be around for a few more years, then everyone will be using D&D programs to make programs. So, is coding dying? Is it pointless to code now? I don't believe it is, but I want to know what's going on here.

 

My other question is: Is Unity a Game Maker? I believe it uses C# 100%, and you can use Blender to make assets and such. Is Unity 100% code, or is it just another one of those makers?

 

If someone else has the same opinion(maybe even a stronger one), I'd love to hear it. I hope it's not just me that is against these programs.

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Not everyone is a programmer. These kinds of tools can by very useful for non-programmers. They can also be useful for quick prototyping.

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I am against, however, every other game maker in existence. Yes, I know they are not 100% game makers, but there is little code involved, and that get's on my nerves a lot. What I don't understand is: If you're not going to make a super HD game, why would you not want to fully code a game? Is it due to people being lazy?

Feel free to code a game without a game engine or APIs of any sort. I mean, that would make you lazy. Let me know when you've succeeded.

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 If you're not going to make a super HD game, why would you not want to fully code a game? Is it due to people being lazy?

 

Would you really want to rewrite all of your boilerplate code over and over again for each game you make when the code you wrote for your previous game will still do the job perfectly for your new project? Most of these game creation tools are designed to let people actually focus on designing an actual game instead of having to worry about all the technical details, with each tool giving varying degrees of freedom. Not everyone who makes games or who wants to make games is a programmer you know.

 

 

I know some schools teach Scratch, which I thing is WRONG. It's not good to teach people how to use makers. You should be teaching code.

 

Tools like Scratch are meant to teach students the very basic concepts of programming without having to go into syntactical details of a language. Just throwing code at a student to teach the absolute basics of programming is not the best solution.

I have personally designed and implemented a scratch-like programming environment for programming robot simulations targeted at a teenage audience as an academic project at my university, and I can honestly say that the basic concepts of programming stick with new students much better if they can use them in an easy to learn environment with immediate results for even a short period of time. You wouldn't be able to accomplish something like this with regular programming languages in the same amount of time.

 

 

 

GameMaker, Scratch, and every other game maker(once again, other then UDK and Unreal Engine) should be shut down, along with the companies that develop them. People should not be using little code. They should be using FULL code. The fun part about coding is sitting at an IDE and typing for hours and hours on end. That's what makes programming fun. You should be forced to code. Yes, you can argue you are still "cheating" by letting the language get compiled into Assembly or Binary. You can argue that, but I'm not the one dragging and dropping boxes into a window and clicking on sprites to make a game. In my opinion, the companies should be shut down, along with their engines. I'm not against the people that use them, I'm against the companies that develop them.

 

This really sounds like you're just trolling.

 

Not everyone is a programmer nor does everyone experience or enjoy programming like you apparently do. Nobody should be forced to learn how to program just because they have the ambition to make a game.

 

If all of those companies providing middleware solutions for game development would be shut down as you suggested the gaming scene would be pretty bleak and a lot of some of your favorite game experiences would probably not exist. You can't honestly expect every huge game title to develop every piece of functionality in-house while there are so many high quality and vastly tested tools are out there to make the development process easier and cheaper.

 

 

 

I also have a few questions. I've seen a lot of people say that coding is dying. It will only be around for a few more years, then everyone will be using D&D programs to make programs. So, is coding dying? Is it pointless to code now? I don't believe it is, but I want to know what's going on here.

 

This is just silly...

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Not everyone is a programmer.  I am one, yet I have used Construct 2 and Game Maker to produce games.

 

I could have picked up SFML and coded my games the longer way, but I have little desire to write a game engine.  I'm 100% certain if I had to write an engine in order to produce a game that I would have never completed my game.  Writing a rendering pipeline sounds like a nightmare to me, and I'm happy for anyone who thinks they would enjoy it.

 

Tools like Construct 2 and Game Maker are limited in many ways.  I grew out of them and moved on.  I don't see why a non-programmer couldn't learn to program if they wanted to, and move on the same.  Meaning, I do not think having programming ability and using a game creation suite are mutually exclusive.

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I have very strong feelings for "Game Makers", some of which include "GameMaker", "Scratch", "Construct 2" and "GameSalad". I'm not against all Game Creators, the only 2 I'm not against are "UDK" and "Unreal Engine", because the amount of code involved to make graphics that HD would be phenomenal, so I understand why companies use them.

 

I am against, however, every other game maker in existence. Yes, I know they are not 100% game makers, but there is little code involved, and that get's on my nerves a lot. What I don't understand is: If you're not going to make a super HD game, why would you not want to fully code a game? Is it due to people being lazy? I know some schools teach Scratch, which I thing is WRONG. It's not good to teach people how to use makers. You should be teaching code. If people want to use game makers, then they shouldn't be making games(again, not including stuff like UDK). I don't see the point in making a game if you're not going to code it. Instead of teaching Scratch, why not teach Python? Instead of teaching GameSalad, teach a better language.

 

Now, what really get's on my nerves is that people thing they're coding when they are using D&D stuff. There is a place I used to go to called "CoderDojo". They taught GameMaker and AppInventer. Now, how in the WORLD is that coding? You aren't sitting at an IDE and typing code, you're dragging and dropping. They taught Python, but you had to ask and they said "Coding? Why would you want to do that? Are you sure you want to do it?". That made me want to punch someone in the face. The people there that taught Python were planning on teaching C++, and agreed with me that GameMaker is wrong.

 

I'm going to state my opinion. It might not be right, but I want to express it:

 

GameMaker, Scratch, and every other game maker(once again, other then UDK and Unreal Engine) should be shut down, along with the companies that develop them. People should not be using little code. They should be using FULL code. The fun part about coding is sitting at an IDE and typing for hours and hours on end. That's what makes programming fun. You should be forced to code. Yes, you can argue you are still "cheating" by letting the language get compiled into Assembly or Binary. You can argue that, but I'm not the one dragging and dropping boxes into a window and clicking on sprites to make a game. In my opinion, the companies should be shut down, along with their engines. I'm not against the people that use them, I'm against the companies that develop them.

 

I am aware that GameMaker has GME, but who's going to use that when you can D&D?

 

I also have a few questions. I've seen a lot of people say that coding is dying. It will only be around for a few more years, then everyone will be using D&D programs to make programs. So, is coding dying? Is it pointless to code now? I don't believe it is, but I want to know what's going on here.

 

My other question is: Is Unity a Game Maker? I believe it uses C# 100%, and you can use Blender to make assets and such. Is Unity 100% code, or is it just another one of those makers?

 

If someone else has the same opinion(maybe even a stronger one), I'd love to hear it. I hope it's not just me that is against these programs.

 

As for your first "question" (more of an opinion really) i'd disagree, the real problem with "game makers (or specialized/inflexible game engines really)" is that they tend to restrict what you can do with them, (RPG Maker  for example is restricted to a specific style of JRPGs), if it fits the game you're making they're great, if they don't fit they're almost useless. If there is a tool out there that allows you to produce the game you want to make at a lower cost it would be stupid not to take advantage of it. (a good game is a good game, regardless of how it was made)

 

As for the second one, no Unity is a fairly general purpose game engine (just like UDK, idTechX, CryEngine, Source, etc), it ships with some pre-written components and a integrated level/scene editor though so you can make basic prototypes without writing much code (and ofcourse, you can download components other people have written and use those rather than writing your own).

 

As for coding and drag and drop programs, neither will go away, RAD tools are great timesavers but to create custom behaviour from any software you will need some form of code. (if that code is formed using a visual language like kismet(used by UDK) or by a text based language like C++ or C# is irrelevant, code is still code regardless of how its presented to the programmer.

 

From an educational point of view however i'd agree that for programmers its better to learn a general purpose programming language than to learn how to use <insert RAD tool here>, for designers on the other hand those RAD tools are an excellent place to start(as they let you focus on the design rather than the technical details) and for programmers those same RAD tools can be a great way to cut costs and save time on real projects.

Edited by SimonForsman

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Like the posters before me have said.
Not everyone is a programmer...

 

But id like to put some focus on the whole drag and drop issue here...

Do not under estimate the work people put in with tools that is "simple" utilizing drag and drop functionality.

Taking Unreal Engine for example.

On one of the previous projects i worked on we had one person mostly dedicated to working in their Kismet.

Kismet is a tool used to setup logical chains of events in the game world. It basically functions by drag and drop.

As a spectator it may look easy.

But trust me, it takes dedication, skill and true cleverness to pull of some of the things you can do with these tools.

 

My opinion on game makers is that they are great.

If Game Maker for example can get someone curios about game development thats superb. 

Some people are perfectly happy to make smaller games and dont want to devote their time with programming. Perhaps they are more interested in the art side of game development, then Game Maker is a great choice.

And im sure that it have and continues to serve as a starting platform for people who wants to learn more on how to make games.

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Im not going to quote, but ill mention a few thing.

All the games I've played I know have.been coded. Minecraft was coded.

If you're a programmer, why would you use those tools?

If your a designer then work with someone on a game.

Does no one else think these tools are discouraging programming? This is why I dont like them. They make it seem like it's discouraged to fully code games.

I wrote a game in pure Java once: no API's, just everything in Java. I have to say, I had a LOT of fun making it.

I love coding. I spend at least 6 hours a day doing it.

At least someone else agrees that these tools limit you. You get more control if you code a game.

I usually use LibGDX and LÖVE for making games.

So really: if these tools exist, what's the point of coding one?

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If you're a programmer, why would you use those tools?

If your a designer then work with someone on a game.

Does no one else think these tools are discouraging programming? This is why I dont like them. They make it seem like it's discouraged to fully code games.

I wrote a game in pure Java once: no API's, just everything in Java. I have to say, I had a LOT of fun making it.

I love coding. I spend at least 6 hours a day doing it.

At least someone else agrees that these tools limit you. You get more control if you code a game.

 

- These tools can help get a prototype out rather fast, and then when you have your idea down, you can code it up.

 

- Not everyone knows programmers that have time to spare, or that has time to work with programmers.

 

- These don't discourage programming, they offer an alternative. Particularly if programming is not your cup of tea but you still want to make a game. Not everyone is into spending several hours a day programming, and some may not have that much time to spend on it, going back to the fast prototyping. These can let you get your game out faster, and the end result, the desired result, is the game.

 

- These tools do limit you to the functionality they offer as well as how much you can expand the tools (I do believe some let you add some form of code).

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