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# New version: Try out my engine demo?

## 36 posts in this topic

Hi,

Would someone like to try out my engine demo and let me know how it 'runs'?

FPS drops etc. (shown in the window title bar during runtime), with the machine/ specs you're using.

Personally I have a constant 59 or 60 fps no matter where in the scene

(I5 2320, 8gb, GTX660, Windows 7)

Here it is:

http://www.crealysm.com/engine/engine_2013-08-20_demo.zip

Some controls:

W/S/A/D = move

mouse = look around

mousescroll = change weapon

PG UP/DWN = 'fly'

Please don't mind the weapon not firing anything and collision detection not yet being there

Edited by cozzie
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I see that you are CoD fanboy

Just joking, no offence.

phenom 955 x4 c3, gtx560ti... constant 60 fps, looks like you have enabled vsync?

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Core2 Duo 9550, Radeon 4850, 8GiB Win8 Pro.

Also got a constant 60 fps. You might want to do some work on your lighting as this is very dark for a scene that is mimicing an outdoors area to be honest.

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Thanks, good to hear that it's running fine.

I'll take the remarks with me, it's just a testscene

Ps.; half of the models are from http://tf3dm.com, the rest was created by myself with my 3ds max knowledge... -ahum-

Edited by cozzie
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Aye, 60 FPS locked.

A simple but good start. I see you only have point-lights atm, are you using deferred rendering or forward rendering for lighting? Just out of curiosity.

Cheers

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Looks good,however you must add an animation to that knife,right now I only hear a sound when i try to attack.

And add some more light to the scene,it's way too dark.

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Runs fine on my machine (60 always):

CPU: i5-2500k 3.3ghz

RAM: 12GB

OS: Windows 64-bit

GPU: Sapphire 6950

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Ps.; half of the models are from http://tf3dm.com, the rest was created by myself with my 3ds max knowledge... -ahum-

Most of models from that source is ripped from various games.

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I have 26-30 FPS, so obviously there's vsync but my computer (here at work, shush ehm ) isn't able to handle it and the FPS drops to half.

Code2Duo E6750 (2.66 GHz)

4,0 GB RAM

GeForce 8600GT

Win7 64b

Edited by Tom KQT
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AMD Turion X2 RM-74(2.2 GHz)

60 fps when not having truck houses and cars in same image

How much time have you been working on directx?

How much time on this demo?

How old are you?

Edited by lomateron
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Solid 60fps on this laptop: i5/GeForce GTX 660M/8gb.

Agree with the comment upthread that the test scene is lit quite darkly.  Maybe that's intentional - a dusk scene perhaps? - but for the purposes of a demo you want to be showing off your lighting, so ramp it up a little! :)

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Thanks all, for testing it out. I have indeed v-sync on, so the max.60fps is locked.

Good to hear that mostly the 60fps is 'hit'.

@Tom KQT: I would expect higher then 30 fps on your machine actually.

The scene's not that complex and I've been doing quite some profiling and optimizing

Could it be a laptop with a 8600M GPU?

Currently it's just point lights and 1 directional light, with low ambient, just to test some lighting.

The scene actually 'grew' to what it is, not with a specific goal.

@Iomateron: I've started the engine in january 2009 up till now, with breaks over up to a year. Last 6 months more 'full speed' (taking into account that it's in free time and not my busy day job ). Game programming has always been a hobby (more recently passion), since my 8th or so. I'm now 32.

The demo wasn't that much effort with the engine in place, being acceptably flexible. I think around 2 weeks or so for the actual demo.

Edited by cozzie
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@Tom KQT: I would expect higher then 30 fps on your machine actually.

The scene's not that complex and I've been doing quite some profiling and optimizing

Could it be a laptop with a 8600M GPU?

No, it's a desktop PC and it can handle some games pretty well.

VSync IMHO is the problem, don't forget that with VSync enabled, if the PC is not able to handle 60 FPS but only let's say 55, then you won't really get 55, but half of the VSync value, which is 30.

I also verified that I had DirectX Debug Runtimes off because I normally they are on as I mostly program 3D graphics here :)

Edited by Tom KQT
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Hi cozzie!

I tested on an Intel onboard chip that is not suited for gaming at 720p and it runs at 30-40 FPS. It is hard to tell because the framerate changes very rapidly. Maybe you should update it only once a second. Still, even on this PC, it is maybe just a bit too slow.

@Tom KQT: I would expect higher then 30 fps on your machine actually.

The scene's not that complex and I've been doing quite some profiling and optimizing

Could it be a laptop with a 8600M GPU?

No, it's a desktop PC and it can handle some games pretty well.

VSync IMHO is the problem, don't forget that with VSync enabled, if the PC is not able to handle 60 FPS but only let's say 55, then you won't really get 55, but half of the VSync value, which is 30.

I also verified that I had DirectX Debug Runtimes off because I normally they are on as I mostly program 3D graphics here

I don't get the VSync issue. It is either and engine configuration issue or a myth. If you have a refresh rate of 60 and the engine can't keep up, in order to get 30 FPS you would need the engine to miss the rate with a probability of 100%. If it only misses it once in a while, you should not have 30.

I have been writing engines for some while now (2D and 3D) and I always use VSync because screen tearing is annoying, and I am getting anywhere from 0.3 to 60 FPS values. When the engine is almost able to keep up, but not quite, I commonly get 53 FPS. Even NVidia in some of their documents say that you go from 60 to 30, but I have never experienced this. If I am overloading my engine with more than it can handle, it will commonly drop to 40-45, this with the in engine framerate counter, or other external framerate counters, like FRAPS.

Let's take a simple example and consider that frames occur at direct multiples of 16.66 ms for simplicity: 0, 16.66, 33.33, etc.

So your first frame should be ready to send to the GPU somewhere before the 16.66 mark. You do all the CPU and GPU work that is needed, and if you make the mark, you will get the full 60 FPS. If you never make the mark and wait for the GPU present statement to finish, you will have to wait two frames, with the second one wasted on idling and get 30 FPS. This is probably the origin of the myth or a simplification based on the simplest behaviors that are no longer valid today in modern engines/hardware.

But with double buffering, tipple buffering, adaptive vsync, etc. this simple scenario becomes much more complicated. You have at first the number of frames that you can produce, which is related and informed by vsync framerate, but not 100% coupled. This is CPU time + bus talk time + offscreen GPU rendertarget based postprocessing (which in modern games can take a lot of time if you add together HDR, FXAA/MLAA/SMAA/TXAA with DOF, SSAO, etc.). You may wish to artificially limit this one. You then have the number of frames that you can present to the GPU. This might be 60 or 30, but because of before mentioned decoupling it will be somewhere in between.

So basically, if every single frame you have takes the same time and this time is over 16.66 and you use the simplest of present schemes, you will get 30 FPS. Otherwise, you will get somewhere in between. The next step down from 30 is 20 FPS. If once every 9-10 seconds one single frame no longer takes that constant amount of time, but 3 times as much, you won't go down to 20 FPS. You'll loose a few frames once in that interval and you average framerate will barely be affected.

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Thanks, I'll change the fps counter to once every second and make an 80/20 option to enable/ disable vsync (specific key press), so you can try it out (didn't make/ find time yet to add a nice hud and options menu). Should be later tonight or tomorrow night.

Here's a pix profile result of a check I did yesterday. I believe my CPU and GPU are quite constantly in line (incidents left out, where the gpu waits for a resource or the gpu is idling):

http://sierracosworth.nl/gamedev/pix_cpu_with_gpu.jpg
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Thanks, I'll change the fps counter to once every second and make an 80/20 option to enable/ disable vsync (specific key press), so you can try it out (didn't make/ find time yet to add a nice hud and options menu). Should be later tonight or tomorrow night.

Here's a pix profile result of a check I did yesterday. I believe my CPU and GPU are quite constantly in line (incidents left out, where the gpu waits for a resource or the gpu is idling):

http://sierracosworth.nl/gamedev/pix_cpu_with_gpu.jpg

That would be nice. But maybe, your priority should be to do something about the lighting and the strange radius artifact on the floor around you character.

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What do you mean with the strange radius artifact on the floor, around the character?
(maybe you can take a screenshot to point it out, with F11 or F12)
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Hi guys,

Here's the new version where I applied your remarks:

http://www.sierracosworth.nl/gamedev/2013-08-27_demo_vsync.zip

The changes, summarized:

- lighting improved for the scene

- enable/disable V-sync with 'F4' key

(remark: terrible mouse input delay with V-sync off)

- removed all redundant state settings, implemented my own state machine (see other topic)

- FPS now updated every 500ms

@Dwarves_h: can you let me know what you mean with the 'strange radius artifact' around the character?

Edited by cozzie
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I've got 1500 FPS on average. Some plants drop it to 1000. Camera barely moves with VSync off.

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70 - 120 FPS with VSync off and 60 with VSync on. I fixed the problem from my previous post (under 30 FPS) by setting compatibility mode for the app (disabling Win7 Aero).

Is it possible to switch to fullscreen mode? Or could you make a version where it is possible? My computer clearly has problems with windowed D3D applications.:)

Btw, you have something wrong in your mouse input processing code, the resulting look-around speed depends on FPS, this shouldn't happen. You cannot expect everyone to run at 60 FPS all the time.

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Hi Tom.

Here's the code on my mouselook, I use delta for mouselook the same as used for movement:

if(_dinput.KeyDown(DIK_W)) _player.SetPosition(_d3dcam.MoveForwardBackward(_timer.GetDelta() * _player.GetMoveSpeed()));
if(_dinput.KeyDown(DIK_S)) _player.SetPosition(_d3dcam.MoveForwardBackward(_timer.GetDelta() * -_player.GetMoveSpeed()));

if(_dinput.KeyDown(DIK_A)) _player.SetPosition(_d3dcam.MoveLeftRight(_timer.GetDelta() * -_player.GetMoveSpeed()));
if(_dinput.KeyDown(DIK_D)) _player.SetPosition(_d3dcam.MoveLeftRight(_timer.GetDelta() * _player.GetMoveSpeed()));

// MOUSE INPUT: handle mouse movement & clicks
if(_dinput.MouseMoved()) _d3dcam.FreeLook(_dinput.GetMousePosX(), _dinput.GetMousePosY(), _player.GetLookSpeed() * _timer.GetDelta());

// the camera freelook function:

void CD3dcam::FreeLook(const long pMousePosX, const long pMousePosY, const float pLookSpeed)
{
mYaw += (float)pMousePosX * pLookSpeed;
mYaw = restrictDegAngleTo360Range(mYaw);

mPitch += (float)pMousePosY * pLookSpeed;
mPitch = restrictDegAngleTo360Range(mPitch);
}



It seems that disabling V-sync make the mouse speed terribly laggy. Not sure how to solve this though (except keep using V-sync).

I've also tried compatibility mode in win7 (disabling Aero?), but this didn't show any difference.

I could consider moving from DirectInput to RAW input from Windows (WM_INPUT), or default WM_MOUSEMOVE messages, not digged into that yet. Also not sure if this will solve it.

PS: in fullscreen there's no actual FPS showing

Edited by cozzie
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What do you mean with the strange radius artifact on the floor, around the character?
(maybe you can take a screenshot to point it out, with F11 or F12)

Sorry for the late reply. I attacked and marked the radius. Under the red markings there is a circle centered around your camera where the floor is more grainy. The pattern follows you around. It looks like very early 3D games, where there was a similar radius around the camera with higher detail, I suppose for performance reasons.

[attachment=17654:seam.png]

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Thanks, I'll look into it. Didn't notice it yet myself...
First thoughts:
- something with mipmapping
- the terrain being 4 squared different meshes
(this would mean the artifact should only be seen in specific locations in the scene, not everywhere)
- maybe shader model 2 is used instead of 3, but I suppose your GPU supports SM3

I'll let you know
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@Dwarves; I tried to reproduce it but with no success.

Below a screenshot of what I see. I've also forced SM2 to test it out, but also there it's not visible.

My last option would be that some last changes have 'solved' this.

Can you try to download the latest ZIP again and see if you still have it?

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Yup, sorry, still there. Maybe it is unique to my GPU. Are your mipmaps and filtering in order?

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