Microsoft (and certain other companies, like Nintendo) has a serious communication, marketing, and branding issue

Microsoft releases some really top-notch software, but a third problem Microsoft has is that they aren't really-truly consumer focused. They make great software focused for people who are producers

Hopefully MS will read both of these lines, I 100% agree with both remarks.

I personally like Win8, I have no interest or need for store apps made for Apple / Android / Windows, I do however have a huge need for MS Office and Skype when im out of the office. I never did understand smartphone apps and based on what I have seen I cant really see why people are using the quantity argument here, however I have been mobile free for almost 6 years and only just got one last month so I guess that would explain why I see no use in apps and primarily got a phone shockingly just to make / receive calls and check e-mail outside the office.

For me I like tools / software that will help me commercially, MS seem to cater for ALL my needs far greater than any competition. I have experimented with a mac over the last year and honestly I have been disappointed greatly. I am not sure if this is simply because productivity was greatly reduced or the arguments presented to me were questionable and / or inaccurate.

However saying that I also never got into FB / Twitter / G+ etc and will only consider creating social networking accounts when commercially needed. I think for me Apple failed to cater for my needs in every way possible, even the large audience wasn't a good selling point and more of a risk than anything. I remember when I was a teen, Nokia was the top seller and you were considered a geek / nerd if you used the internet. I understand that people may disagree but I honestly feel Apple will share the same fate as tamagotchi's did back in the 90's just at a slower pace or at least until something newer or more interactive comes out from competitors

I think you are seeing 'pro MS' statements where none exist; people tend to be pro-getting-shit-done which, more often than not, closed source apps do just fine. I know how Windows works, I install things and they 'just work' so I have no need nor desire to step outside of that world because I can get-shit-done.

Just a question here. Isn't it boring to be so faithful, never treading outside the "given path"? I mean, as a developer, I'm naturally curious and like exploring new things. Sure, it's necessary to Get Things Done, but isn't it also great to learn new ways of Getting It Done? At least it's tons of fun!

Not if you have deadlines and you are somewhat in a hurry and the things you want to do just to test or try something requires you to do a lot of stuff. and the end game is not that really worth it. its a matter of time invested. Its getting things done easily that matters, and that is why computers where invented in the first place.

and oh, not most of the consumers are programmers (you cant just let your mom or sister learn Bash just to install a text editor in Linux right?)

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and with regards to Windows 8 without the start button, its not the button itself that we are complaining but how the programs are organized in metro style.

my only wish is if they can organize the Metro style menu tiles well(according to their product) just like the traditional windows style, that would be great. Right now, the default settings is if you install a software which contains lots of extra tools/utility software (example a 500 in 1 games or Visual Studio) all of the icons will just be in one level and its messy!

my only wish is if they can organize the Metro style menu tiles well(according to their product) just like the traditional windows style, that would be great. Right now, the default settings is if you install a software which contains lots of extra tools/utility software (example a 500 in 1 games or Visual Studio) all of the icons will just be in one level and its messy!

Expandable icons would be pretty cool. Like icons that hold what would be considerred an app group in the modern UI.

What I'd like also would be to be able to switch to a horizontal home screen (scrolls up/down instead of left/right). Or maybe if it could do either depending on where you stick your groups.

I only just looked into how to customize that screen more because of this post, and it's definitely something I have totally missed out on. I'll have to customize my stuff more. I should probably also get around to adding that steam->modern UI thingy someone made.

edit: pipe dreams and ramblings :p

my only wish is if they can organize the Metro style menu tiles well(according to their product) just like the traditional windows style, that would be great. Right now, the default settings is if you install a software which contains lots of extra tools/utility software (example a 500 in 1 games or Visual Studio) all of the icons will just be in one level and its messy!

They recognized this as a problem. In Windows 8.1 it doesn't automatically add tiles to your start screen when you install something. They go into an intelligently grouped alphabetical "All Apps" list.

I think you are seeing 'pro MS' statements where none exist; people tend to be pro-getting-shit-done which, more often than not, closed source apps do just fine. I know how Windows works, I install things and they 'just work' so I have no need nor desire to step outside of that world because I can get-shit-done.

Just a question here. Isn't it boring to be so faithful, never treading outside the "given path"? I mean, as a developer, I'm naturally curious and like exploring new things. Sure, it's necessary to Get Things Done, but isn't it also great to learn new ways of Getting It Done? At least it's tons of fun!

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not because why would anyone say anything like that?

I'm the definition of curious. That doesn't mean I should use a bicycle instead of my car, to go to work which is 60 miles away, to avoid being "faithful" (faithful to whom? myself?!).

I don't place any value in what BRAND of the O/S I'm using. I use what works best. I also use Android and love it. Everything doesn't have to be so black and white.

I think you are seeing 'pro MS' statements where none exist; people tend to be pro-getting-shit-done which, more often than not, closed source apps do just fine. I know how Windows works, I install things and they 'just work' so I have no need nor desire to step outside of that world because I can get-shit-done.

Just a question here. Isn't it boring to be so faithful, never treading outside the "given path"? I mean, as a developer, I'm naturally curious and like exploring new things. Sure, it's necessary to Get Things Done, but isn't it also great to learn new ways of Getting It Done? At least it's tons of fun!

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not because why would anyone say anything like that?

I'm the definition of curious. That doesn't mean I should use a bicycle instead of my car, to go to work which is 60 miles away, to avoid being "faithful" (faithful to whom? myself?!).

I don't place any value in what BRAND of the O/S I'm using. I use what works best. I also use Android and love it. Everything doesn't have to be so black and white.

At least you stooped to the level you perceived my post to be in. In hindsight I could've probably worded it better.

I can't see that your analogy holds. Biking 60 miles two times a day is unreasonable while using different technologies for implementing the same thing are not. If the distance was 6 miles, on the other hand, I'd say it might be a good idea to try. Unless you're obese. Which might make it a good idea anyway.

(you cant just let your mom or sister learn Bash just to install a text editor in Linux right?)

Why not? Are mothers and sisters incompetent or not capable because they are women? Everyone CAN use all that stuff, it is only a matter of time investment. Also, there are MANY sisters and mothers out there who use this stuff much better than you, and many fathers and brothers who are absolutely clueless at it.

(you cant just let your mom or sister learn Bash just to install a text editor in Linux right?)

Why not? Are mothers and sisters incompetent or not capable because they are women? Everyone CAN use all that stuff, it is only a matter of time investment. Also, there are MANY sisters and mothers out there who use this stuff much better than you, and many fathers and brothers who are absolutely clueless at it.

I think you are seeing 'pro MS' statements where none exist; people tend to be pro-getting-shit-done which, more often than not, closed source apps do just fine. I know how Windows works, I install things and they 'just work' so I have no need nor desire to step outside of that world because I can get-shit-done.

Just a question here. Isn't it boring to be so faithful, never treading outside the "given path"? I mean, as a developer, I'm naturally curious and like exploring new things. Sure, it's necessary to Get Things Done, but isn't it also great to learn new ways of Getting It Done? At least it's tons of fun!

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not because why would anyone say anything like that?

I'm the definition of curious. That doesn't mean I should use a bicycle instead of my car, to go to work which is 60 miles away, to avoid being "faithful" (faithful to whom? myself?!).

I don't place any value in what BRAND of the O/S I'm using. I use what works best. I also use Android and love it. Everything doesn't have to be so black and white.

At least you stooped to the level you perceived my post to be in. In hindsight I could've probably worded it better.

I can't see that your analogy holds. Biking 60 miles two times a day is unreasonable while using different technologies for implementing the same thing are not. If the distance was 6 miles, on the other hand, I'd say it might be a good idea to try. Unless you're obese. Which might make it a good idea anyway.

That's the point. Biking 60 miles two times a day is unreasonable, just as using Linux is unreasonable for me because it means I will be less productive just for the sake of being "curious" and less "faithful".