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fir

separate designer problem

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 The problem I see in my work  is such that when you design' 

some element of game

 

1) you do not exactly know how it will look like when putting into run (the exact look depends on so many details (related to machine tinkering and visual coherence) - it may look more bad it may look more ok, but it is very often somewhat unpredictable on the design stage

 

2) same with designer not always know how much sweat and tears some not to much important idea my cost (and on the other side that some very good ideas my be reletive cheap)

 

So if a designer is considered a person who is inventing a game in a dream 

and making some text on it when coming to the ground of doing this this 

my be almost unusable - what with that problem ?

 

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I'm sorry, but can you rephrase the question please?

 

I'm having difficulty understanding what you're trying to ask.

 

which part? I got somewhat weak english but think it can be understood..

 

The broad problem I state here is that when you are not experienced to the very far point where you are sure that the things you are talking will be looking and working good,

your talking is almost useless (and even worse than useles 

it may be leading to the dead end, when not taking it, may give a better chance of doing something more reasonable) 

 

because there is maybe not stright correspondence between some dream (game project) and its realisation, and I am curious if 'designers' are expected to be competent in the field of realisation - I know the one and he was not to much competent, he just was saying for example, make some explosion here - so it was not to much conscious designing 

 

I am curious how this things are understood and treated

Edited by fir

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These are both common problems people have as they start with game design.

 

1) You will think about things like "there will be a spooky corridor here" but later as you try to make it you notice you don't know what to put there so that it would be "spooky". As you gain more experience in game design you will learn to visualize and think out the different assets and features in the extent that you will actually need them. Improving on this translates into trial and error pretty much although part of it is taking influence from existing games as you play them. You just go on making levels and props and you'll widen your toolset as you go.

 

Designing and actually making are two different things that you can improve on and you should keep track on how good you are in each of them. Are you bad at coming up with ideas about how something should look? If so, reserve enough time to create unique content and find new ways to boost your creativity. Or are you bad at following your design, lacking the technical ability to put together something you can visualize clearly? Then you must learn to use the tools better and reserve more time to make the assets.

 

2) Most common beginner mistake is to try to make too big projects while you are still learning the basics. You will eventually  develop an eye and a sense about what certain things mean in amount of work. When you don't have lots of experience you have to stay humble, play things safe and make very small projects in general. When in doubt, ask some of the more experienced people. 

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These are both common problems people have as they start with game design.

 

1) You will think about things like "there will be a spooky corridor here" but later as you try to make it you notice you don't know what to put there so that it would be "spooky". As you gain more experience in game design you will learn to visualize and think out the different assets and features in the extent that you will actually need them. Improving on this translates into trial and error pretty much although part of it is taking influence from existing games as you play them. You just go on making levels and props and you'll widen your toolset as you go.

 

 

Thats right this is related to what Im saying. It seem that you 

have to walk a long "path of trial or error" probably, to be able to do it.

 

Lets say you a coder -

 if you do not cross (i mean something like travelled, sorry for weak english)  that path you will not do it , and if you travelled it you will do it  Lets say you are a designer if you do not cross that path your advices are useless, so it is some kind of schema

 

 

notpath coder     notpath designer

path coder          path designer

 

 

some combinations are bad, 

 

I am thinking also "if the trail and error path" is necessary for coder as a indyvidual experience then some external separate

designing my be totally not usefull - but those are maybe not to much clear things - but i wanted to state of crusial importance of  indyvidual experience which my make the advices of separate designers quite unusefull (useless).

 

(now i am somewhat lost in what i was trying to say and what i was trying to ask :/ but there is some topic here )

Edited by fir

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Game design is a form of art and that's why you can't always ask for other people's advice on all topics. You shouldn't ask them what kind of style would be best or what color this and that. Regarding artistic side the good kind of questions are "a or b and why?".

 

But game development is also a technical task and you should ask them about if <some gameplay feature>, <some extent of level area> or <some visual effect> is feasible within your time frame, for example.

 

How do you become a good composer? How do you become a good painter? Practice, plan and sketch, trial and error, analyze your own works and those of others and learn from mistakes, study and research the technical side... It all sums up to "experience" or "knowledge". Nobody's born to be good at it, you need to build your knowledge yourself somehow.

 

BTW You might also want to correct "my" vs "may" and "trail" vs "trial".

Edited by ShadowFlar3

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Game design is a form of art and that's why you can't always ask for other people's advice on all topics. You shouldn't ask them what kind of style would be best or what color this and that. Regarding artistic side the good kind of questions are "a or b and why?".

 

But game development is also a technical task and you should ask them about if <some gameplay feature>, <some extent of level area> or <some visual effect> is feasible within your time frame, for example.

 

How do you become a good composer? How do you become a good painter? Practice, plan and sketch, trial and error, analyze your own works and those of others and learn from mistakes, study and research the technical side... It all sums up to "experience" or "knowledge". Nobody's born to be good at it, you need to build your knowledge yourself somehow.

 

BTW You might also want to correct "my" vs "may" and "trail" vs "trial".

i want say probably that there are two ways/kinds of designers - hypothetical one is a dreamy designer who imagine some game (may be with some details) but is not conscious 200% how to realize it (or not it)  (how to do it on a real level) and the hypothetical second who is conscious how to do that, (some experienced game maker)  it may be also a third kind the coder who designs the game in real time based on the partial outcome of trials

Edited by fir

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Doesn't know what kind of game to make and not how to make games: just a guy

Does know what kind of game to make but not how to make games: an idea guy

Doesn't know what kind of game to make but does know how to make games: a programmer

Does know what kind of game to make and does know how to make games: a game designer

 

:)

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Does know what kind of game to make but not how to make games: an idea guy (Depending on where yo

 

Doesn't know what kind of game to make and not how to make games: just a guy

Does know what kind of game to make but not how to make games: an idea guy

Doesn't know what kind of game to make but does know how to make games: a programmer

Does know what kind of game to make and does know how to make games: a game designer

 

smile.png

 

In some teams you'll also find people who:

 

Do know what kind of game to make and not how to make games: just a guy Producer 

Do know what kind of game to make and does know how to make games: a game designer / experienced producer

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I'll answer this as honest as possible. There are great designers that do not know a spec of code/art/music or anything other than game design. That being said, I do not have respect for a designer who at least cannot prototype their designs in any way. Design shouldn't be a job title. A game developer is what you want to be.

 

I am terrible at art, but I got my masters in computer science so I could make games. Do I like programming? No, not particularly. But I wanted to make games so I did it. Do my games have great art? Hell no, But I do what I can when I am working alone on a project. People who are "idea guys" only thrive in larger environments where their uselessness can be overlooked by the sheer size of the team they are on. You should take your craft seriously enough to put in the hard work, and attempt to learn useful skills for game development.

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