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Shane C

Religious experiences

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2. If God doesn't exist you must highly consider life to be automatically generated in the universe. The universe is homogenous, the same events repeat everywhere, so you should have life everywhere

Welcome to Fermi's paradox.

 

 

 

possibly, but there is another factor:

as-is, at present, most of this "everywhere" is very far away, and thus any alien life can't be confirmed or denied (via observation).

 

(ignoring claims of UFOs and conspiracy theories and so on...).

 

 

more likely it is identifying if anything is alive on other planets around in this solar system (microbes, ...), and if some more distant planet has lots of critters (or a civilization), there isn't really any good way to know.

 

 

however, whether or not this life exists may not say that much, since there isn't much to say life *doesn't* exist elsewhere, and otherwise it may boil down largely to a probabilities game (as-in, if the chances of complex life existing is statistically rare, so chance encounters are uncommon or unlikely...).

 

though, it has turned out that apparently planets are pretty common at least, so there is at least this is a starting point...

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2. If God doesn't exist you must highly consider life to be automatically generated in the universe. The universe is homogenous, the same events repeat everywhere, so you should have life everywhere. But I haven't found a person that doesn't believe in God that still believes in aliens, instead most of the people that believe in God also believe in the contrary solution for life as well.


I don't believe in a personified god, but I'm willing to believe in aliens. I haven't seen any, and I'd wager they're EXTREMELY far away, but I can't say with conviction whether they exist or not.

Humans have had a strong tendency (which appears to be questioned more and more recently) to believe themselves unique and special as intelligent life forms. I think that's pretty pretentious, especially considering how common malfunctioning brains are these days. Edited by Nypyren
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1. Why atheists spend so much time coming up with ideas to disprove the existence of God? That actually transform them into negative believers.


Atheists are negative believers, it's the very definition of atheism: one which rejects the existence of a higher power, deity, God, etc...

You're both confusing atheism with anti-theism. Atheists say there is no evidence for gods so there's no point in believing in them. Anti-theists say they believe there aren't any gods despite not having any proof.
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No gods for me. I find the idea of a god really, reeeaaaaally ridiculous. Specially the one of a god that watches over us, that loves us, cares for all of us, and bla bla bla. It's just something that seems so out of touch with everything. It's like an insta-rationalization machine.

 

I was never able to relate with such things.

 

same here. Grew up in a protestant family in Italy (that makes them pretty serious about religion because it's a minority).. was intrigued by the question during my early teen years but then quickly became annoyed by it.. It's still beyond me how supposed logical people involved in things like software developing can consider something like believing in holy ghosts and spirits seriously.. but hey, that's the world we live in, hopefully it'll get better.

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I've been raised semi-catholic. Meaning I was baptized at the age of 6 because the priest refused to do it when I was born, since my mother wasn't a virgin when she married.

Tell me about zealots.

Now, that other priest was shocked that my soul would be lost (eh?), so insisted in doing it anyway when I was 6. It's beyond my comprehension why God would care whether some presumed pedophile pours water over your head or not, or how doing such can prevent your soul from getting lost (where would I lose it anyway?). Either God exists and loves us all, or it doesn't exist, then the water won't do any good either. Makes you wonder what happens to children who die during birth.

 

Unsurprisingly, my parents taught me the religious stuff without putting much effort into the having-to-believe part and without putting any effort into the being-hypocrite-on-sunday part. We had religion in school, and I did all that church stuff you're supposed to do as a child to become a good christian.

 

In summary, I'm not opposed to the idea of "God" or the idea of "some god" for that matter. In fact, while I sincerely hope that there is one (because obviously I'll die some day), I do have difficulties believing that there is a god in this world, or a god that cares for that matter. With so much evil, it's hard to believe there is a good force overlooking and guiding us. You'd think God would eventually crush the pharisees, but this hasn't happened in several thousand years.

 

I'm OK with people "doing religion" (even though I perceive that as somewhat naive), as long as they leave me alone with their ideas and values. It's their decision what they do in their free time. Unfortunately, most of the time they don't leave you alone.

 

Besides, I do consider "god" and "religion" two entirely separate things. Religion is a system conceived by vicious people to suppress the simple-minded and to exploit man's natural fear of death and oblivion. It has nothing to do with a god or that god's will, even though the priest will tell you so.

Religion is a service contract that you pay for, which you can neither verify nor enforce. They tell you that if you do your prayers and behave, and if you regularly pay money to the priest (so the priest can live in luxury and doesn't need to work), then God will give you the afterlife when you die. Except there is no way of knowing, and if it turns out to be a false promise, there's nothing you can do about it any more. The church has been successful with this con for 2000 years.

It's no coincidence that in every medieval painting, the peasant was depicted as a starving leper and the priest was always the guy with chubby cheek and a bottle of wine in one hand, and a leg of mutton in the other. The pope would be eating from golden plates, none less pompous than the king's. Love thy next, truly. Care for the needy.

 

In my experience, the most religious people are usually the most vicious, too. And no, I'm not talking of muslim terrorists (though they, too, are a good example of the evil that religion is doing).

I've seen people, and not just once, who go to church every sunday and sing their chorals and appear as "good christians", except... well except when they should be good christians. The same people who are so chaste and pious will fuck their secretary at work and beat their step-daughter. The same people who sing in church will conspire against other people (who are their next in church) and give wrong testimony just to get a promotion in their stead. The same people who preach generosity will steal from others (e.g. cheat on social security) and not even feel guilty about it. The same people who preach love-thy-next will buy cheap products which are made from exploiting Black Man in Africa and will buy bottled water stolen from the same people. Of course those are just Africans, so they don't count, do they.

The same people who "love their next" will shun their next if he believes in the wrong god (or in the same god, but with a slightly different interpretation).

 

I'm not even talking about people who should really know better, such as pedophile priests (which isn't a very singular thing) or bishops who spend upwards of 30 million of euros of money designated to feed the needy for their own private residence. But hey, who gives a f... about the needy.

 

And don't get me started on the Bible, or the "word of God" as it's usually called. The word of God, assuming there is one, couldn't be any more remote than from what's written in the Bible. Plus, the zealots will take the Bible literally when it fits their purpose, and claim that it needs "interpretation" otherwise. Twist it any way you like, yay.

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But I haven't found a person that doesn't believe in God that still believes in aliens

 

 

huh?

 

I think any person who can add will easily come to the conclusion that the chances for life in the universe literally endless.

But if by aliens you mean those funny stories on history channel then you are probably right.. atheist generally dont follow that kind of bandwagon.

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As to me In general I am lacking of religious and spiritual experiences (sadly) i am working to much, and even if I am resting i do it dumb way. Now at 35 I am living mostly in human populated hell, I see how much harm and misery Is done to people (for example by simpletonic money making hellish lawyers and simpletonic money making hellish doctors), I got personally terrible health problems too and i am victim of hellish lawyers/administration and hellish medicine men (and women too).

So I got a lot of such kind experiences related to humanitarizm or something like that but this is al civil and not spiritual ' It sounds to me like I would be existentialist like camus or sartre here but maybe this is only a matter of bad mood probably. As to God it is hard to say, I was sent as a kid to catholic church and influenced me somewhat, some elements of this (related to righteousness and so) make much sense for me.

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I am an agnostic but I often take the atheist stand because internet is full of people trying to project their religion unto others and this force needs to be negated by people that are able to and bother. If I encounter any religious propaganda on the part of internet I cover I will reply with equal force against it and there's no blaming me for the discussion that results in. 

 

But I'd rather skip the theme entirely because it doesn't belong here or much elsewhere. People gather here to discuss game development and it makes sense strengthen the community spirit rather than to divide them on arbitrary basis such as religious views.

 

The definition of god itself as an entity who doesn't show itself anyway but is omnipotent doesn't make much sense to me. Even less sense makes that some consider it a virtue to believe in something that doesn't matter until supposedly after you die. Still even less sense makes to make other people suffer based on something someone else has deducted from some ancient text. And the latest is what I oppose the most in what religion still does today.

 

Religion hasn't done much harm to me but it has to a whole lot of people, even entire nations. As someone's signature said, scientists never killed priests but priests have killed scientists. (Or something along those lines.)

 

1. Why atheists spend so much time coming up with ideas to disprove the existence of God? That actually transform them into negative believers. If God exists or not there is no need for believers or anti-believers, we don't matter.

 

2. If God doesn't exist you must highly consider life to be automatically generated in the universe. The universe is homogenous, the same events repeat everywhere, so you should have life everywhere. But I haven't found a person that doesn't believe in God that still believes in aliens, instead most of the people that believe in God also believe in the contrary solution for life as well.

 

 

1. Because there are theists spreading their religion (and this obviously works), there must be atheists stopping the progress, otherwise bible would become the biggest authority and we'd regress back to the middle age level where people are slain for opposing it or fight world war III with Christianity vs Islam or something as meaningful.

 

2. No you mustn't. You can consider only one of this incredibly rare occurrences happens to be currently taking place in this time and space considering the relativity of them. If you haven't stumbled on a person who doesn't believe in god but believe in aliens (it's better to call it extraterrestrial life even though that term is still debatable as well) you can't have covered too much ground. Most of people in Christianity dominating countries who believe in extraterrestrial life don't believe in god because extraterrestrial life is incompatible with Christianity.

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1. Why atheists spend so much time coming up with ideas to disprove the existence of God? That actually transform them into negative believers. If God exists or not there is no need for believers or anti-believers, we don't matter.

 

I suppose it gives them something to do, likely you will see arguments from both sides being something relayed by some famous atheist / theist, personally despite my bad experiences with religion I don't care what people believe, if it isn't religion it's conspiracy theorist spewing crap. If it affected me I would care and despite UK being a partially secular state, policy makers are subtly shutdown if they even attempt to argue for / against on the grounds purely on religion. This was something heavily witnessed during the gay marriage debates and I am glad the religious arguments were put aside, instead real concerns were discussed.

 

My point really is, you can be a believer of any mythology / conspiracy whether modern or ancient, it isn't really a problem as it is up to the individual on how they will live their life based on that belief. Once you start having mythology dictate your policies things go wrong simply because there is no room for reforming religious 'laws', fortunately we are seeing this less and less these days and more and more states are preferring the pragmatic approach to policy making than the "lets do this because this vague passage in a holy book might mean it".

 


2. If God doesn't exist you must highly consider life to be automatically generated in the universe. The universe is homogenous, the same events repeat everywhere, so you should have life everywhere. But I haven't found a person that doesn't believe in God that still believes in aliens, instead most of the people that believe in God also believe in the contrary solution for life as well.

 

Considering how large this universe is and how much we don't know about it, it wouldn't be wrong to say that there is other life, I am not sure who you are speaking to but I doubt many people who believe in God believe there is other life, historically for centuries people even believed the universe revolved around earth and due to the self-centred close minded nature of religion, the church didn't even question it. Not to mention the fact that for centuries people assumed the Earth was flat, you would think with all these magical miracles that have so called happened you would have just once some angel, demon, witch, wizard etc. show up and say "umm guys, I hate to break it to you but the Earth is not flat and the universe doesn't revolve around Earth".

 

Just look at how long it took people to understand gravity, electricity or thermodynamics, yet somehow religion still claims it is 'right' and should be followed. When it comes to religion, you just need history alone to prove how bad religion has been for us. Saying that if a person wishes to believe their religion as long as it doesn't affect me I don't care, I think in the west at least we are past the point where religion can do anymore harm

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But I haven't found a person that doesn't believe in God that still believes in aliens

 

 

huh?

 

I think any person who can add will easily come to the conclusion that the chances for life in the universe literally endless.

But if by aliens you mean those funny stories on history channel then you are probably right.. atheist generally dont follow that kind of bandwagon.

 

 

I think a lot of the aliens on History Channel stuff can mostly be discounted as "crazy New-Age stuff..." (*1).

 

probably not many people (religious or otherwise) actually believe it.

 

they also have a bad habit of basically crapping on whatever they talk about, like interviewing people who are like "we will just pull crap on various subjects and throw it at the camera". yeah... seems credible...

 

 

*1: and, meanwhile new-age people have a bad habit of fouling up whatever they get their hands on, like take bits and pieces of science and bits and pieces of various religions and glue magic crystals and aliens and dolphins and whatever else onto it (because, you know, "quantum" means "magic", right?... it is like science, but bedazzled...).

 

then they make everyone else look bad in the off chance that their versions are mistaken to actually represent whatever topic they are going on about.

 

(not trying to make controversy here...).

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Religions and anti-religions doesn't make or destroy God.

 

This is what everybody needs to understand.  God has nothing to do with religions: Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, your own, or your next-door priest's.  I always bring this up whenever I am in discussions with friends who are conflicted with their faith.  It seems that their flawed logic starts from religions.

 

"Religions are bad because they divide and create war.  Since Religions worship God, and that God should be all-loving, therefore, God does not exist because war is not loving"

 

I iterate so many times that religions are run by people, just like corporations and governments.  Anything run by people are prone to corruption.  The fact that religion X wages war all the time, or corrupt from the inside, tells nothing about God, or God's existence.  You are talking about people who are taking advantage of the powerful things that are religions for their own benefits.

 

People will use anything to create separation, gain power, and hurt other people in the process.  If there were no religions, they will use other excuses: skin-color, nationality, ideology, politics, their lands, their lambs, sexes, what color should they use for walls, C# vs C++, and all ridiculous things will create tensions and conflicts.  It doesn't matter.  That is the very nature of human beings: to be different, to question existing systems, and to rebel.

 

These natures, which may sound very damaging and why would God (if God exists and is responsible for why we were created this way) do this to us, may actually have some benefits.  To allow us to rebel would prevent us from being under control of some oppresive forces (whether that's a corrupt government or demons).  To allow us to be different creates diversities, and diversities is a good thing.

 

It is theoretically possible for human beings to coexists together under different beliefs and ideologies, unfortunately greed, jealousy, and lies come into play and wreak havoc in everything.  This is what Christianity/Catholocism (even though it's not perfect itself) trying to teach to its members: to love one another, so that none of these would have happened.

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unfortunately greed, jealousy, and lies come into play and wreak havoc in everything

I think a slight difference between the needs and interests of people are enough wreak havoc. Even if we take all the "bad" things from the human nature, individuals will get into conflicts even with the best intentions. That's why I think possession is a good thing, and that there won't be world piece without strong controlling power(s) with all its trade-offs (I'm talking about practical things, like a government, not God) or a much more sparse distribution of humans. Or some global heroine-like drug, or Matrix.

 

-Captain Obvious

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It is theoretically possible for human beings to coexists together under different beliefs and ideologies, unfortunately greed, jealousy, and lies come into play and wreak havoc in everything.  This is what Christianity/Catholocism (even though it's not perfect itself) trying to teach to its members: to love one another, so that none of these would have happened.


although, even then, there is also a fair amount of fragmentation in terms of beliefs as well.

like, people try to get along, despite there being a lot of disagreement over lots of different things, and what is a Christian to one person may be a very different thing to someone else, ...

but, from the view of the outside, most of the bad points of most of the groups are sort of rolled together into a generic media stereotype.


but, ultimately a lot of this is also a good reason why not to have any centralized authorities in these matters.

better is if pretty much everyone is free to disagree, and things can generally be kept civil.

but, ultimately, many people try to form central authorities, and this is where problems arise, and typically the bigger or more influential the authority, the worse its problems and abuses become (ex: state religions and cults).
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1. Why atheists spend so much time coming up with ideas to disprove the existence of God? That actually transform them into negative believers. If God exists or not there is no need for believers or anti-believers, we don't matter.

 

If "god" (by whatever definition you want to apply to that) does exist, he has no meaningful interaction with our daily lives. His fan club, OTOH, do.

 

Some atheists (Dawkins, Hitchens, et al) feel that the world would be a better place without religion and attack the root cause of religion, belief in god. The reasoning goes if you disprove god, then religion goes away and with it, fundamentalism, attacks on science, etc.

 

Personally, I'm not sure about this. People who are idiots (creationists) or people who have been oppressed and manipulated for political gain (jihadis) will simply find some other reason to do whatever it is they do.

 

That said, I am thankful that Dawkins and his ilk exist. They serve as an important counter-balance to the religious crazies. It's just unfortunate that religious fundamentalists tend to occupy positions of power (Ayatollahs, the Tea Party), while "rationalist fundamentalists" are marginalised and ignored.

 

Besides "is there a god" is a fundamentally interesting question. Religion, for good or evil, has had a massive influence on our society and culture. Even Dawkins advocates teaching the bible in schools, simply because you can't understand many great cultural works without it.

 


2. If God doesn't exist you must highly consider life to be automatically generated in the universe. The universe is homogenous, the same events repeat everywhere, so you should have life everywhere. But I haven't found a person that doesn't believe in God that still believes in aliens, instead most of the people that believe in God also believe in the contrary solution for life as well.

 

Well, it depends on what you mean by "aliens". If you mean "life on other planets", I think you'll find that most atheists would quite happily say that not only is it possible, it's highly likely. 

OTOH, if you mean little grey men and government conspiracies, that seems less likely for several reasons:

1. If you work out the probabilities for intelligent life, the distances involved are vast, and the energy expenditure is immense.

2. If you did spend all that time and effort to come visit, why would you be subtle about it? Unless you were doing some kind of Star Trek Prime Directive cultural observation, in which case, if you wanted to stay hidden, your tech would allow you to do that.

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Well, it depends on what you mean by "aliens". If you mean "life on other planets", I think you'll find that most atheists would quite happily say that not only is it possible, it's highly likely. 
OTOH, if you mean little grey men and government conspiracies, that seems less likely for several reasons:


Also, I find it quite funny how many times these aliens look more human than the species closest to humans on earth. As if evolution universally converged on the same form.
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Also, I find it quite funny how many times these aliens look more human than the species closest to humans on earth. As if evolution universally converged on the same form.

 

Although the reason for that is quite obvious and rather simple (people are stupid and simply can't imagine something that's much different from themselves could exist and even be intelligent), it actually isn't quite as queer an idea as you might think.

 

Evolution generally(*) converges to what best fits the environmental conditions, whatever uses the least amount of energy and bears the greatest chance of survival.

 

Given similar environmental conditions. similarly shaped bodies would likely evolve (and only aliens which come from somewhat similar environments could possibly come to visit, except if they're wearing full-body environment suits -- and then you wouldn't know what they look like!).

 

For example, on our planet, all vertebrae have five fingers (and more or less exactly the same organs in general). These five fingers may melt into two or into one during fetal development, or one of them may wander away a bit (think dog), the thumb may be opposable or not, but they all start with the same number, and they all are generally alike. Does that make sense? No. But for some reason it's like that. Clearly 8 fingers are better than 5, so why do we not have 8 of them? And now that I think about it, 3 hands are clearly an advantage. If you're a handyman, you know what I'm talking about. So why do we not have a 3rd arm on our back?

 

Something must at some time have given a strong evolutionary advantage to "The Universal Plan" which is in use on our planet, or it wouldn't have persisted in such an ubiquitous manner. So either you believe that it's like this because "God" made it that way (but, why not any different, why no variation, and why doesn't God use a bit of fantasy?) or it must be the optimum given earth-like environmental conditions (which, too, are kind of an "optimum").

 

(*) Notable exceptions are conditions which include aggressive races such as homo sapiens, obviously. While nobody knows why homo neanderthalensis died out, it sure wasn't because their race was "unfit" in a Darwinian sense. They were much more advanced than homo sapiens at their time and had by far better adapted bodies. Numerous finds in caves suggest that their brains were quite a bit more advanced than one would think, too. My personal theory is that they died out because they were busy painting walls and thinking about who put the stars on the sky while their smaller but more aggressive cousins were busy throwing javelins at them.

The 1,000 or so species that die out every year also don't die out because they're unfit, but because we are an aggressive, destructive species and we have no respect for their existence.

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If God doesn't exist you must highly consider life to be automatically generated in the universe. The universe is homogenous, the same events repeat everywhere, so you should have life everywhere. But I haven't found a person that doesn't believe in God that still believes in aliens, instead most of the people that believe in God also believe in the contrary solution for life as well.

 

 

Yes, the physical laws are, to the best of our knowledge, the same throught the universe, but doesn't it all depend on what exactly are the odds of the right conditions on a planet to emerge, in order to eventually have life(and specifically intelligent life, as it's the kind of life we can actually communicate). I don't think we have ruled out the possibility that the odds of such an event happening are so astronomical that it only happened on Earth, in all the visible universe. On the other hand, if the odds are such that we have, on average, only ONE planet with intelligent life per galaxy, that means there are billions of civilizations in the universe...except we won't come in contact with them, ever...not in a thousand years, not in 100 thousand years, not in a million years(assuming humans will still be around in some evolved form). I mean, even most of  sci-fi works about hyperspace, warpspeeds, wormholes and whatnot still doesn't "dare" to talk of such a thing as intergalactic travel or communication - the concept is almost unthinkable. Of course, one never knows... smile.png

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1. Why atheists spend so much time coming up with ideas to disprove the existence of God? That actually transform them into negative believers. If God exists or not there is no need for believers or anti-believers, we don't matter.

 

If "god" (by whatever definition you want to apply to that) does exist, he has no meaningful interaction with our daily lives. His fan club, OTOH, do.

 

Some atheists (Dawkins, Hitchens, et al) feel that the world would be a better place without religion and attack the root cause of religion, belief in god. The reasoning goes if you disprove god, then religion goes away and with it, fundamentalism, attacks on science, etc.

 

Personally, I'm not sure about this. People who are idiots (creationists) or people who have been oppressed and manipulated for political gain (jihadis) will simply find some other reason to do whatever it is they do.

 

That said, I am thankful that Dawkins and his ilk exist. They serve as an important counter-balance to the religious crazies. It's just unfortunate that religious fundamentalists tend to occupy positions of power (Ayatollahs, the Tea Party), while "rationalist fundamentalists" are marginalised and ignored.

 

Besides "is there a god" is a fundamentally interesting question. Religion, for good or evil, has had a massive influence on our society and culture. Even Dawkins advocates teaching the bible in schools, simply because you can't understand many great cultural works without it.

 


2. If God doesn't exist you must highly consider life to be automatically generated in the universe. The universe is homogenous, the same events repeat everywhere, so you should have life everywhere. But I haven't found a person that doesn't believe in God that still believes in aliens, instead most of the people that believe in God also believe in the contrary solution for life as well.

 

Well, it depends on what you mean by "aliens". If you mean "life on other planets", I think you'll find that most atheists would quite happily say that not only is it possible, it's highly likely. 

OTOH, if you mean little grey men and government conspiracies, that seems less likely for several reasons:

1. If you work out the probabilities for intelligent life, the distances involved are vast, and the energy expenditure is immense.

2. If you did spend all that time and effort to come visit, why would you be subtle about it? Unless you were doing some kind of Star Trek Prime Directive cultural observation, in which case, if you wanted to stay hidden, your tech would allow you to do that.

 

 

Thank you so much for this. You put it together so much better I'm ashamed of how my own text came out. +1!

 

Also restores some of the faith (pun intended) in scientific thinking eventually taking over religious power. But also reading some of the other comments here, I can't really count on it.

 

Everyone is of course free to believe what they want. Unfortunately the religion doesn't stay on this level, it affects legislation and expands to other people well beyond the lines of believers.

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Who, what is Holy Spirit is left open in all monotheist religions. None defines it. From most relevant sources, so to speak, it is pointed that Holy Spirit is an identity incarnated to living realm as Jesus Christ, donated a body from God and Virgin Mary, to be performed as Agnus Dei sacrifice. He sort of failed at the purpose as he donated the "Keys to The Heavenly Kingdom" to saint Peter on his way to Rome to be crucified the second time. This escalated to saint Peter resurection upon his "head down crucifiction" in Rome, being burried in middle of Rome,

"saint Peter Comb" is another name for Vatican, where nearly all popes have been buried. Let apoint the fact that second pope was given title "pontifex maximus", what was title of the highest Roman pantheon religion authority. The papal emblem caries the two keys and a crown. Since second vatican councile. The cothlic church forges itself to be a representative of Christ, instead of God. As title of saint Peter was always known to be "Vicarious Filii Dei" that means "representative of the Son of God". This also emerged that cothlic church adopted all facts about God from Old Testament, as Jesus was a son of jewish woman, cousing an incredible respect towards jewish religion. The fact that jewish religion refused to reform its teachings with accepting Jesus Christ emerged a lot of isolation from christianity towards judaism.

 

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It is a known thing , even from my experience, that kids of religion forcing parents are pationate atheist, while, kids of atheist parents become religous. A faith is something for you to come free and honest, like a flower for you to pick up on a heyfield. 

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It is a known thing , even from my experience, that kids of religion forcing parents are pationate atheist, while, kids of atheist parents become religous.

 

That is not a known thing at all, and there is a ton of evidence to disprove it.

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This sums it up for me (from Wiki):

 

Apathetic agnosticism (also called pragmatic agnosticism) claims that any amount of debate can neither prove, nor disprove, the existence of one or more deities, and if one or more deities exist, they do not appear to be concerned about the fate of humans. Therefore, their existence has little to no impact on personal human affairs and should be of little theological interest.
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This sums it up for me (from Wiki):

 

Apathetic agnosticism (also called pragmatic agnosticism) claims that any amount of debate can neither prove, nor disprove, the existence of one or more deities, and if one or more deities exist, they do not appear to be concerned about the fate of humans. Therefore, their existence has little to no impact on personal human affairs and should be of little theological interest.

 

 

fair enough description.

 

 

some of this gets into the matter of theodicy though, or basically trying to answer why, assuming He exists, is all-powerful, ..., that hardly anything is done.

 

there are possible reasons, for example:

this life is merely a test, with those who pass the test being rewarded, and those who fail being condemned;

the physical and material well-being of humans is largely insignificant in the greater plan, and so intervention is only really used in cases to move the plan forwards (*2);

during the fall of man, authority over the goings-on on Earth were mostly handed over to Satan, thus the present situation (*1);

the present situation is needed for free-will to exist (with too much intervention, free-will would cease to exist);

...

 

 

*1: whether or not this was a literal or historical event can be considered a subject of debate. though, non-literal does not necessarily mean not-true.

(a lot of this stuff potentially exists outside of the normal timeline).

 

 

*2: also, part of why he is not a supernatural vending machine: he gives in accordance with the divine plan, and anything which is not part of the plan goes unanswered (miracles then go to those who exist in a role to move the plan forwards, and for everyone else, no such luck). this doesn't necessarily means supernatural events signify good purpose: hoaxes and demons are also common (IOW: the person is faking it, or a demon is the one doing it).

 

contrary to popular belief (assuming they exist), demons are not necessarily scared off by religious symbols or imagery, and may also make use of it to their own ends.

 

most often though, what appear as supernatural events are actually hoaxes, like self-proclaimed religious leaders / prophets / ... essentially using stage-magic (or, if one is more skeptical, all of them are).

 

another issue regarding religious experiences is that many / most of them are likely hallucinations or delusions rather than an actual experience.

well, and the issue that stress / sickness / ... are cases where a person is most likely to experience both types of phenomena, making a problem for anecdotal accounts of religious experiences. (nevermind people who use LSD or shrooms thinking that these experiences count as valid religious experiences, rather than drug-induced hallucinations...).

 

...

 

 

a more neutral answer would be:

"assuming they exist, they don't get involved in the fate of humans, and would thus be of little practical interest..."

 

like, otherwise, people spend lots of time debating philosophical stuff as well, even when most of this stuff has little real impact, really, on anything...

 

granted, some things within science and engineering have philosophical origins, but this is not to say necessarily that they had much practical application at the time, or would not have been rediscovered simply by the situation demanding it.

 

 

most often though, people will analyze and debate things, because they can, and whether they matter, or even exist, is of lesser importance...

Edited by BGB
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Contrary to popular belief, atheists barely spend any time thinking about god. I'm so tired of this Christian bullshit where they say we must believe in god because we think about him so much. Man, the reason you always encounter atheists talking about god is because you always bring that shit up.

 

Prayer in schools, in sports, in politics. All the damn time.

 

Always trying to force other people to deal with your magical sky men.

 

If I sound annoyed its because I am. In college preachers and shit always hogging speaker's circle. Every other time you open the door its some people in church clothes asking bout god and always having those pamphlets and shit.

 

If I never had to hear about god again that would be great. But I live in the country of the Tea Party, so I'll be dead long before that happens.

 

When I'm on an atheist website, in the rare occasion I still go to one, half the questions are:

 

"Can you guys help me come up with a good refutation or response to this because they won't stop asking me. First I ignore them but it doesn't work then I say I don't know which I don't, and to me that's okay because sometimes we don't know shit, but they see blood in the water and it just doesn't stop."

 

Just about the only time an atheist really actively goes out to stir shit up is when they were raised super religious and they are finely free of all the emotional and physical abuse and all the shit that went down and they are hyper sensitive to religious shit. Like someone says god bless you and they get a flash back and flip out. After a while you just learn to roll your eyes and ignore that casual religion that surrounds you. But when you first get free you want to push back. You can finally say that god isn't real without getting hit by a tire iron. (I'm not kidding one of my friends used to get beat with a tire iron for being atheist. Although I don't mean to imply that this is common for people. Most people I know just got the belt or emotional abuse.)

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Contrary to popular belief, atheists barely spend any time thinking about god. I'm so tired of this Christian bullshit where they say we must believe in god because we think about him so much. Man, the reason you always encounter atheists talking about god is because you always bring that shit up.

 

most people probably don't think much about religion in general...

 

 

oddly enough, even being a Christian doesn't make a lot of this go away, like the missionaries will still bother people, as they are not so much trying to convert the non-religious at this point, but most often those who don't believe exactly the same things that they do (or are in their area and not a member of their specific church).

 

so, it is to some extent, one sect/denomination/... vs another. a few of them make a big deal about trying to get their members to convert anyone they can find, so it sort of ends up as a thing of never-ending missionaries. (sometimes from different sects/denominations, sometimes from other religions, ...)

 

 

usual answer is to try to avoid interacting with missionaries, if possible, or just say nothing and try to blend in or avoid them (so as to not draw attention to being in any way different), or hiding from the door-to-door variety.

 

it is also "fun" if most of ones' relatives / extended-family have different beliefs from oneself, and a person may lack any specific cultural identity, sort of existing between the various sub-cultures which cross ones' life.

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