• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Unity and UDK

8 posts in this topic

Hi Everyone,


Excited to be on this forum, we are a small group of game developers looking at our options in the future. At the moment, we have a game that were working through in the Unity Engine.. We had a trial of PRO and now deciding whether we buy two licences for the main coders, or we skip over to UDK. 


Here is a small snippet of what we are working on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPn3OxHPVjs


Now I don't want to start a Unity Vs. UDK debacle, I'd like to call on some of the GURU's here for there experience in the matter. There's several reasons we love Unity and Several reasons we are thinking about jumping ship.




Unity  and C# is an absolute delight.

The editor system is easy and informative.

The build, camera and scene editors are straight forward and intuitive.

The import system is easy, modifying textures is very simple.

Standard animation is easy to code based on events.

The asset store is amazing

Occlusion Culling and Navmesh system make enemy Ai and performance optimisation a breeze.




Buggy issues with Mecanim system and animation system in general.

Lack's features of the UDK platform, animation touch ups etc.

Run into issues with deferred lighting system (Pro only as well).

Static skyboxes, standard shading system had to be re-wrote to look half decent.

Bugs in General

Physics system issues, takes a lot of coding to get it near how it should. Then it's not as smooth as we got it after three hours of UDK..

General render system needs work.


We are very new to UDK but out of the BOX it seems more impressive, albeit a lot more time consuming. Then there's the 25% cut Unreal take at point of sale after 5K. The main thing that concerns us about UDK after reading other forums is it's lack of versatility, we are designing an RPG game, so a dialogue system, decent physics system, character designer, weapon and armour instantiate and decent particle system is a must.


Some feedback welcome before we decide to place too much time into UDK.




Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really understand what you mean by it's "Lack of versatility"


It's been said by the developers themselves that Unreal was not designed for the sheer purpose of being a FPS Game, albeit that IS what is usually created with the engine, while browsing the UDK forums you will see that there are plenty of people doing different things with it, something I believe you should look into is a game in development called "The Stomping Lands",  This game uses the UDK and has nothing to do with FPS aspects, if anything it's a RPG Survival game that is purely Physic based, a dialogue system may not be a "Standard" package, but it's not in Unity3D either. I've messed with both of these engines and I would have to say that Unity3D is my favorite upon the Two, but that's just preference of writing in C#...   


Do a little bit of research, the Unreal Engine is capable of so much more than people make it out to be.


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are not working alone, you may be better off with the UDK.


I want to clarify though,the royalties don't start until you hit 50,000.  It was originally just 5,000, but they changed at a while back.  Also, it isn'[t much at all, but don't forget the $99 you have to pay upon releasing your first game commercially.


As far as capability....I would say that you will get more done faster with Unity overall.  There are some quirks that you have ran into.  Most people run into some quirk or other, but in reality, I've seen forum posts that the UDK also has some quirks to it, and in reality I'd say all software has something like that.  But, the UDK is much more powerful overall.  It may not be as much as people think, because Unity has been catching up somewhat, but there is still a difference.  Unity's scripting is faster though, so if you intend on having anything truly code intense, Unrealscript won't be as fast.  They are changing it to C++ in UE4, but we still have no idea when that is going to happen to hit the UDK as well.  That shouldn't stop you from using the UDK as is now though, because many of the same concepts will hold.  Languages come and go.


As far as versatility,...UDK's versatility tends to be underrated.  Yes, if you are making an FPS, you get all the things included for that.  But if not, it doesn't mean you can't use the UDK, rather you have to code it yourself.  Unity is more "free" in this aspect because it doesn't include much of anything genre specific.  It comes with a few scripts for cameras, but not much.  On the other hand, the asset store has many things that are pre-built to make any given genre with Unity.  Also, you can always roll your own there as well.  So yeah, with the UDK there may be a slight work around, but it is worth it...if you have art assets and skill to take advantage of UDK's power.  Otherwise, you may as well use Unity.


So overall, the biggest factor some people consider is price.  Pay cheaply now(Unity) or pay extremely cheap now and then really high later if you make some dough.  It isn't exactly this, because you have access to the free version of Unity, and if that is enough, than so be it.  Also, there are two sides to the UDK argument.  Some say that 25% is too much royalty.  Others say that because it doesn't start until 50,000, and doesn't even affect anything before it, it is worth it.  Also, once you make that amount, you can afford 25%, like saying that it is a good problem to have.  The thing to also think about is that if the UDK helps to realize your dream games where other software does not, then maybe it is worth the 25%, considering that you wouldn't have made $50,000 without it.  But if you CAN easily make it with Unity, then it may not be worth it to you.  We can't decide that kind of thing for you, but I atleast can give you a perspective view of it.


The last thing to make a bigger point of...can your art pipeline truly take advantage of the UDK?  And if not, should you still switch anyway for other reasons?  Most dev teams aren't going to have the time and/or skill combinations required to fully utilize UDK's render system to the max.  So if you want to switch based on those types of capabilities, it may not make any difference, as art makes a big deal.  Fancy shaders etc... don't fix bad art.  Now, you can use lower class art just fine with UDK, and the "fancy shaders" may help some.  But then, you would need a different reason to switch.  For example, the price, or the bugs in Unity.  Don't switch because of something that you can't take advantage of.  Disclaimer:  I'm not saying your team can't produce AAA art, or enough good art to take advantage of the UDK.  I'm just saying to consider if you can or can't and not base your decision to switch on the rendering if you indeed can't or don't have time to, but if you can, than it is a consideration.


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

It really depends on your project. Do you have better human resources? do you have more time/can bend time constraint? do you have enough budget to keep the project longer?


Answering these, I'm pretty sure if you have so much time and looking for quality, and you have a decent team ready to learn (I'm pretty sure you do, looking at your demo), UDK is your choice. If you need something fast, Unity is not that bad at all. In my opinion about Unreal Engine is, you better wait until Unreal Engine 4 is released. It's really not far for now, try contacting them for further information about it.


In short, less time? use Unity.


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not being an expert on UDK and only having tried it for a short period, my impression clearly was that the further you depart from using the pre-supplied FPS scripts the more obvious the flaws of UDK's script system become. UDK did really impress me in many other ways, but it's a god awful shame to have such a weak script system stepping on the breaks to your creation. Hoping they rectify the issue in the upcoming version but I doubt it given the WTF choice of C++ as a script language.


As for Unity, you accurately summed up the situation in the OP; technically inferior in many areas even though the core is amazing - extension is a must.

Hopefully you can some UDK expert opinions in here as well at not just "noobs" like me who only did shallow evaluations. :)


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone, appreciate the responses. I'll start from the top:


I don't really understand what you mean by it's "Lack of versatility"


Lack of versatility in the way of, reaching goals without having to go to extremes. The system may be geared towards a type of market, doesn't mean X cannot be created in said engine although time is a limiting factor. This is a three year project and anything that saves time is a bonus, if time permitted we would look at creating our own engine but with funds and time as is I can't see it happening.





I hope our art pipeline can make good use of UDK, one of the concerns is Unity may struggle in the long run. What I mean by that is look at the demo reels between the two and it becomes apparent which has the expected eyecandy, obviously graphics isn't everything but if you can excel why not? We can get the source code for the Unity engine and improve upon it (Hopefully) although the amount of time again could be better spent using UDK.  Unity would give us time to complete the game quickly then work on overhauling the lighting and shading system, half of one ten dozen of the other.


That being said, we are finding UDK a little clunky and hard to get around after the extreme ease of Unity. So a lot of consideration, the demo posted above is currently using Depth of Field, DX11 shaders and some well designed artwork. But it doesn't look that good for the moment, we all like a bit of eyecandy :). Plus even with occlusion culling, performance on some systems is nothing short of poor.




Thanks for the kind words, UDK 4 may be what were looking for.  Funnily enough were all C++ coders, C# is taking a bit of getting used to but we like the less rope to hang your self with approach to scripting.







I think what you say sums up very nicely.


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that depends on your long term ideas. For example, if you make a game in UDK 3, and 10 years later you want to remake it in UDK (insert number here), there is no telling whether or not they will use the same code or functions they used 10 years ago. In fact, they are dumping unreal script. So if you made a game in UDK 3, you may have to rewrite your entire game purely from scratch. Unity doesn't look as though it is going to go through any major changes as far as languages, but you'll never know. This is why I prefer to just write my own game engine.


Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that depends on your long term ideas. For example, if you make a game in UDK 3, and 10 years later you want to remake it in UDK (insert number here), there is no telling whether or not they will use the same code or functions they used 10 years ago. In fact, they are dumping unreal script. So if you made a game in UDK 3, you may have to rewrite your entire game purely from scratch. Unity doesn't look as though it is going to go through any major changes as far as languages, but you'll never know. This is why I prefer to just write my own game engine.


I've been down that path before, issue is can you make a better engine than a very large team of developers with years upon years of experience behind them? If someone else could make a better engine than CryEngine or UDK with a simple elegant UI system like Unity I'd jump on it. 


For now we are developing a game in CryEngine, that will take three years alone.. To add a game engine into the mix, you might as well double that deadline. I'm not badly funded for an indie, but I don't have the time or the money to do so. If I won the lottery, hell yes I'd do it all from scratch.

Edited by ShadowKGames

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Similar Content

    • By UNNYHOG
      Hello, Colleagues!
      We have been working on our newest Fantasy style Gesture based MOBA game for a long time and it's releasing on Steam on July 26. Meanwhile you can already try it out by downloading our launcher from the website.
      Any feedback is welcome here. Thank you.
      If you don't want to play, I would love to share with you our teaser : 
    • By Scouting Ninja
      So I am working on a mobile game.
      It uses slides for a story, the slides are very large. Each slide is almost 2048*2048; the max texture loading size I am using for the game.
      My problem is that Unity keeps each slide in the memory after it's loaded, even when it will show only once per game. This leads to the game crashing on older mobiles.
      My idea was to destroy each object after it was shown using a coroutine, so it deletes the past slide and loads the next slide. This worked because instead of crashing on 23 slides it crashed on 48 slides.
      After some profiling I realized that destroy() isn't clearing all the memory that a slide used.
      What I want to do now is assign a limited amount of memory as a slide slot. Then I need some way to unload the slide from the slot, freeing the slot for the next slide; without Unity storing the slides in the memory.
      Any ideas on how I would do this? 
    • By LoverSoul
      Hello everyone.
      I had a problem with transferring my character from the creation editor to the game engine. I created the character in Adobe Fuse, then imported it to Mixamo to put rig and animation.
      However, the appearance of my character has deteriorated significantly, and after importing into Unity, the character even began to look like a meme from the Assassin's Creed. Can you please tell me how I can fix all this so that my character's hair does not look like bits of bacon sticking to her head, and her eyes and mouth have taken their stable position in the skull?
      Thank you for attention.

    • By ilovegames
      Simulator driving with two modes of play - a race and free game in the open world!   Features: - 2 game modes - race and free game - 3 modes of transport - Buggy, ATV, Jeep - The open world - Realistic control - Modern graphics

    • By NajeNDa
      Hi there,
      I am a game programmer (C#/C++) who is looking for a project to join. I am computer science engineer plus Master Degree in Game Development, currently working in one the most renown mobile games company (2 yeras academic experience, 1 year working experience).
      I have developed several prototypes or even games almost ready to release, but I always lack of artists, so I am looking for a project already set up or few artist to begin working in something.
      My preferences are:
      Unity or Unreal Engine 4 based project (UE4 prefered) PC/Console game prefered but mobile is accepted too Not interested in VR Serious team with almost all the roles filled or pretending to be filled 3D project prefered over 2D Guaranteed 7 work hours per week, Crunch 20 work hours per week  European team (if timezone is not a problem for you, so its not for me) I am not looking for any kind of money income from games neither the team, I want to do this as a hobby and a way to improve my skills.
  • Popular Now