It's for some sort of 4X space strategy game (it's not important what kind exactly, things in this topic should fit to several ones).

I was thinking about shipyards. Not as buildings that generate any resources or "production" but like in a real word, a place where ships are built. Those shipyards would be a limiter of ships production (you have tons of money and resources but you can't build more ships because you have no free shipyards).

So far it's all strightforward. But I was thinking of adding some sort of civilian ships. If you are preparing for war you are producing warships, but if not, your shipyards are not idle but automaticly produce some freighters, currier ships, luxury passenger liners, etc. Those help your empire in an economic way (or other). I mean, I don't want it to be the standard "you build a shipyard and then use it at 100% capacity to produce warships".

Now the question, how exactly it should work and what kind of non combat ships there should be? And do you think this idea is worth pursuing?

I can see it as a slider warships/civilian. Or some automatic "use up shipyard if you are building a warship and all free shipyards auto produce civilian ships". Or maybe make three categories: warships, freighters, civilian/commercial. I think it would be nice to introduce some "private sector" :) Like, you pay for warships (gives you military power), you pay for freighters (gives you imperial logistics/transport) and you DO NOT pay for civilian/commercial ships since these are bought by citizens and used for trade/pleasure (gives more money form tax + from selling the ships to population and/or increase happiness).

And then you can of course refit the civilian ships into floating nuclear missile launch platforms...

You should consider whether it fits in with the rest of the game. If you dont also have civilian activity on land it would seem out of place.

Maybe not make them completely civilian, but as some kind of military-owned non-military vessels, to provide items (and week long luxury cruises) to your troops to increase battle motivation.

I always assumed a shipyard that built military vehicles didn't do civilian stuff in the same way that a tank factory doesn't build cars.

I do kind of like the idea that civilian ships are tied into growth and expansion with perhaps a minimum amount of civilian vehicles are required for your colonies to reach a certain levels of development and having a surplus will speed of growth. It could be as simple as setting the shipyard to auto build commercial vehicles and then it goes away and does it with no more interaction for you starts producing space trucks, and space buses. As your colonies develop you start to see more advanced and large civilian vehicles you might even see a luxury casino station open in orbit of a planet.

I always assumed a shipyard that built military vehicles didn't do civilian stuff in the same way that a tank factory doesn't build cars.

I do kind of like the idea that civilian ships are tied into growth and expansion with perhaps a minimum amount of civilian vehicles are required for your colonies to reach a certain levels of development and having a surplus will speed of growth. It could be as simple as setting the shipyard to auto build commercial vehicles and then it goes away and does it with no more interaction for you starts producing space trucks, and space buses. As your colonies develop you start to see more advanced and large civilian vehicles you might even see a luxury casino station open in orbit of a planet.

The most widely produced tank in history was initially produced in a locomotive factory that was converted for wartime use. The battleship Bismarck was made in the same yard that produced some of the largest civilian liners in history, and now produces warships and equipment for the oil industry. Industrial capacity is industrial capacity. If you can build a heavily armoured warship, then you can likely build lighter commercial ships in even less time.

One mechanic that could be interesting to play with is having different classes of production that are suitable for either commercial or military production. Engines and hulls for example. The factories that can build the biggest engines would clearly cost more, say 3x as much as one that could only produce smaller engines (such as those more likely to be used by lighter commercial vessels), but while the 'bigger' factory could also produce the smaller engines it would no do so at 3x the rate. The same could go for hull armour. Yards designed mainly to handle lighter armour would be cheaper, but take far longer to build ships with heavier armour.

The economy could be based on a 'merchant marine' and private sector fleets. While most planets would produce at least a little of any given resource, various planets could specialize in production of a handful so they can provide a massive surplus over what they would use internally. You could also include things like ground troops that would need to be ferried between bases and the front line. May even want to include heavy and light transports, where heavy ships would be able to survive combat, while the lighter versions would suffer extremely high losses. The lighter ones could be used to ferry troops and supplies in low combat-risk zones to supply dumps, while the heavier ones would then finish the journey.

How you wage war would then depend on how you choose to tool your economy. Build game play up such that a heavy "Fleet" focused warfare style can be played in a way that is just as valid as a more 'ground force' based approach. Where a fleet based warfare would focus on controlling lines of supply and be a siege warfare style, the ground based attacks would rely on a smaller fleet designed to just protect a fist of transports that pour troops into an area. The fleet could respond to threats faster, but the landing force would be exceptionally potent if you are able to move the troops and supplies to forward staging areas fast enough.

Having a strong civilian fleet could offer you bonuses in research, production expansion, general 'happiness', and such, while strong military control over transit could offer a bonus to espionage defence. (Spies and such are more free to move about your empire when there is less oversight.)

And then you can of course refit the civilian ships into floating nuclear missile launch platforms...

LOL, you know, somehow the similar thought was poping out in my mind as well :)

BTW, I'm not sure what's the proper English word, but there such ships in WWII called "helper cruisers". Inferior, retrofited civilian vessels that had firepower but were slow and sunk at the first hit due to fragile hull.

You should consider whether it fits in with the rest of the game. If you dont also have civilian activity on land it would seem out of place.

Good point...

I always assumed a shipyard that built military vehicles didn't do civilian stuff in the same way that a tank factory doesn't build cars.

No, there never was something like "miliary shipyard" (althrough I'm not sure about submarines).

BTW, Russians were producing aripnlanes in furniture factory during WWII (and the funnies thing is that these wooden airships were not inferior at all, actually wooden airships (below the speed of the sound) have better characteristic (weigth to durability ratio) than metal ones, but more expensive to produce (metal can be melted, smelted and forged while wood can be only crafted)).

One mechanic that could be interesting to play with is having different classes of production that are suitable for either commercial or military production. Engines and hulls for example. The factories that can build the biggest engines would clearly cost more, say 3x as much as one that could only produce smaller engines (such as those more likely to be used by lighter commercial vessels), but while the 'bigger' factory could also produce the smaller engines it would no do so at 3x the rate. The same could go for hull armour. Yards designed mainly to handle lighter armour would be cheaper, but take far longer to build ships with heavier armour.

I had an idential thought. I'm puzzled why it's not used in games, I mean, it's quite strightforward and logical idea (that's how it works in a real world)...

In my game, there are nearly as many 'support/civilian' ships as there are warships, and its impossible for a player to win without constructing a fair amount of these.

I was primarily trying to follow the "you don't need to fill your shipyards by 100%" concept. Kind of to allow switch to civilian ships (that are free to produce - free being a very important point) when nothing is produced. Also to even promote not using shipyards to 100% or not all the time. Also to cut down on micromanagement (if you don't tend to your shipyards for a few turns than there is no problem, these will auto produce civilian ships your empire will need anyway). Or as a kind of "forced periodical shutdown of shipyards" (not producing your military/freighter fleet or otherwise directly useful ships all the time).

it's more common for a civilian company to take government production contracts than for a state-run department to moonlight in the private sector.

Yes... The whole state production thing in games is overall annoying and not so realistic. But after trying Victoria: Empire Under the Sun I concluded a private sector that the player can't affect is not a very fun game at all...