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SparkyNZ

Retro wireframe vector graphics

18 posts in this topic

Wow... you must be really old. :) Any 3D modeling program can do what you ask, and the "hidden line removal" techniquie is no longer used... since ages. Now, you can use "backface culling" for that.

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Wow... you must be really old. :) Any 3D modeling program can do what you ask, and the "hidden line removal" techniquie is no longer used... since ages. Now, you can use "backface culling" for that.


40 in Jan.. I am one of the wise ones. Now what was I saying? My Ram fails me..

I guess the reason you can do blackface culling is because you would draw the faces as polygons
.. Same as you would if filled polygons only they are non filled (outlined) polygons yes?
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Retro wireframe... Long live Battlezone! (yep, I'm that old)

Check blender for modeling.

Check out http://ogldev.atspace.co.uk/ for OGL tutorials - it has a tutorial on loading models, animations, etc.

Thanks I will check these out. Blender did pop up lots when I did some searching but I wasn't sure if it would suit for Battlezone/Elite/Mercenary style models.

The big question though : how would I render a model as wireframe only?
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ps I LOVE BATTLEZONE, I would dedicate years to making a new Battlezone like game if I could find other people willing to as well! I can code.

Just say when...

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Wow... you must be really old. smile.png Any 3D modeling program can do what you ask, and the "hidden line removal" techniquie is no longer used... since ages. Now, you can use "backface culling" for that.


40 in Jan.. I am one of the wise ones. Now what was I saying? My Ram fails me..

I guess the reason you can do blackface culling is because you would draw the faces as polygons
.. Same as you would if filled polygons only they are non filled (outlined) polygons yes?

 

 

I guess it checked the polygons for facing (via sign of cross product component which points into the screen of the vertices in screen space) and built an edge visibility table from that. As I said it only works for convex shape (but in Elite, everything was convex). An easy way to do it these days would be to draw a black polygon and then draw the edges of the polygon as lines over the top, which would mean shapes occlude each other as well (as long as you write to the z buffer as well), unless you are gong for a true retro look (i.e. can see through objects even if they have backface culling), in which case you wouldn't draw the black polygon, just the edges. If you have non triangular faces you also need to store data about whether an edge is an exterior edge (i.e. on the boundary of the polygon) or not.

Edited by Paradigm Shifter
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As I said it only works for convex shape (but in Elite, everything was convex). An easy way to do it these days would be to draw a black polygon and then draw the edges of the polygon as lines over the top, which would mean shapes occlude each other as well (as long as you write to the z buffer as well), unless you are gong for a true retro look (i.e. can see through objects even if they have backface culling), in which case you wouldn't draw the black polygon, just the edges. If you have non triangular faces you also need to store data about whether an edge is an exterior edge (i.e. on the boundary of the polygon) or not.

 

I hadn't actually realised how smart Elite was (I always knew it was really smart but..) I forgot it didn't have truly transparent objects. Now that is really cool. :) Mercenary was "see through" for everything.. Its actually something like Mercenary that I would like to have a go at creating. I keep Googling for "games like mercenary damocles" but never find anything. Sure, I got MDDClone etc but it would be really good (for an old retro like me) to play something very similar but different. And like I said.. I've wanted to have a go at creating my own world since I was 17 or so.. I think the Elite-style "non totally transparent" wireframe objects would be good to try.

 

I gave the NeHe tutorials a blast a couple of years ago but that was a distraction from the 2-D OpenGL stuff that I was doing at the time. I'll have a play over the weekend hopefully. Big question is does Blender allow you to see objects in wireframe in this manner or would I have to construct objects filled? Surely it will allow a wireframe preview? (Wish I had more time!! :) )

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I LOVE BATTLEZONE, I would dedicate years to making a new Battlezone like game if I could find other people willing to as well! I can code.

Drawing in wire frame mode with openGL is very easy you simply set a state in openGL

 

Thanks heaps for all that info Eddie! If it weren't for work, kids and my nerdy GeekTunes iPhone app, I'd be diving into that right now! I'm itching to have a play with all this. Its been 2 years since I last played with OpenGL but I still got my test apps, tutorials and books. :)

 

Be careful.. you may be hearing from me again. :)

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Not used Blender, 3DS Max certainly allows you to view objects as wireframe with or without bakface culling.

 

Elite objects were just backface culled, they didn't draw filled black polygons, which is why you can see the starfield through the space station. You can see ships through other ships as well

 

elite-Space-Station.jpg

 

That's the spectrum version, but it worked in the same way as the BBC version. Later versions did draw filled polygons for the ships (and I expect they would use a zbuffer as well, it would look really bad otherwise). EDIT: Or they could just sort the objects and render them based on distance to camera, that wouldn't require a z buffer either. That was how PS1 games worked.

Edited by Paradigm Shifter
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And for old people the best source to start with NeHe's OpenGL Lessons( c++ codes provided).

 

That site rocks! I bought his book "Beginning OpenGL Game Programming" (Luke Benstead). Don't know if I'd need the second book or not for what I want to do though..?

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Drawing in wire frame mode with openGL is very easy you simply set a state in openGL

to switch on,

glPolygonMode( GL_FRONT_AND_BACK, GL_LINE );

 

Hehe! It works a treat! I just loaded NeHe lesson 05 onto my Mac, added the above line and Battlezone here we come! See-through wireframe spinning pyramid and cube.

 

I couldn't get ASSIMP working on my Windows laptop (probably useless gfx card - even the viewer wouldn't start with some DirectX 9 3D complaint) and getting it all to work on the Mac is currently in my 'too hard' basket for now. Got Blender installed though..

 

I may give http://ogldev.atspace.co.uk/www/tutorial22/tutorial22.html a go if I can find a way to get one of these libraries such as ASSIMP working - either on my Mac or laptop which is due replacement.

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I couldn't get ASSIMP working on my Windows laptop (probably useless gfx card - even the viewer wouldn't start with some DirectX 9 3D complaint)

Assimp(the library, not the viewer) has nothing to do with your graphics card. It parses and loads the model into its internal data structures, then you have to use them to create the GPU objects. Check the ASSIMP tutorial on ogldev.

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Assimp(the library, not the viewer) has nothing to do with your graphics card. It parses and loads the model into its internal data structures, then you have to use them to create the GPU objects. Check the ASSIMP tutorial on ogldev.

 

OK.. will do. I'd downloaded a couple of Blender objects and wanted to check them out with the viewer.. just to kid myself that they would load in something else other than Blender etc. Understand what you're saying. I'll give it a try tomorrow.. really do want a new laptop though.. May have to try it on the work laptop instead ;-) Thanks. I'm always torn between Mac and Windows laptop - Mac tends to win since the battery still works. :)

Edited by SparkyNZ
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