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Playstation 4 emulator on SourceForge. Is it legit?

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I found this page here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/playstation4emulatorx8664pc/

 

It claims to be an open-source project that is trying to get people to create a Playstation 4 emulator before 2017. I thought it might spark some debate/interest here, or get some attention on the subject, since many claim a PS4 emulator may never be created, or is too difficult to do so(I personally disagree).

 

I want to contribute, but I don't have/use Git, and you need it. Any ideas on this? Is it legit, most importantly, in your view?

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Legit? Depends in what country do you live...

 

Anyway, if you have the abilities to contribute to such project, using GIT should be not a problem. Good luck to the PS4 (hardware and software) DRMs happy.png ...

Edited by Alessio1989

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Any ideas on this? Is it legit, most importantly, in your view?

 

If talking about legit in terms of law: Its about as legit as any other emulator, any other fan-fic game, etc... etc... I mean, in order to run an emulator you have to reverse-engeneer the PS4 hardware/software to an extent (which is probably prohibited), you'd have to use copied game ISOs (prohibited), and you'd have to flash some of the "BIOS"-like software of the console. Seeing however since there has nobody been sued for making an emulator AFAIK, you decide.

 

 

If talking about legit in terms of whether it can be concerned trustworthy: Well, given that fact that there isn't even a PS3/Xbox360-emulator up to this point, I highly doubt it. 2017 is like 4 years from now, how long has the 360 been out yet? Nintendo, due to less powerful processors, seems to be easier to emulate given that has been a wii-emulator out for some years now. I wouldn't say its absolutely impossible to make an emulator for eigther of those newer/more powerful consoles, granted no later than the arrival of quantum compers we hypothetically would have so much computation power the we probably could emulate 50 PS4s at a time if their emulator were written by a monkey... yet again I doubt there could be a PS4-emulator if not even a fully working PS3-equivalent is out yet. Will take some more time, probably 2017 for a PS3 one? Who knows..

Edited by Juliean

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Well, given that fact that there isn't even a PS3/Xbox360-emulator up to this point, I highly doubt it.

To be fair, the XBox One and PS4 have the distinct advantage of being based on your normal amd64 architecture.

 

Emulating PowerPC on intel is a considerable pain in the neck (Apple did it for a short while after their Intel transition, and dropped it as quickly as they could).

 

IIRC, the initial devkit seed for the XBox 360 was a souped-up PowerMac G5 running a custom OS, to get around the architecture issue.

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http://ps3emulatorx.com/



There has been a PS3 emulator - this isn't the only one.



XBOX 360 -> http://xbox360emulatorx.com/

 

Yeah, those are fake like all the rest, you'd probably download a virus and whatnot (whoever is brave enough to try it, be my quest). Just do a 5 minute google search "is there an xbox360 emulator", and see for yourself.

 

EDIT: Now to be fair, according to some very recent posts there are actually some working emulators at that time around, but they won't play any games, just some homebrew-stuff, and honestly I wouldn't try any download from a site that claims their emulator can do otherwise.

Edited by Juliean

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Rumour has it that MS themselves are working on a 360 emulator, to sell the back-catalogue of 360 games on Windows 8 (as a reinvention of the soon to be discontinued "Games for Windows Live" brand) and enable backwards compatibility on the Xbone.

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you'd have to use copied game ISOs (prohibited),

 

Making the ISOs is not illegal. Distributing them is, however.

 

 

That depends entirely on what country you live in. Some countries in particular have some pretty horrible anti-consumer laws, and new laws are being made each day.

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I'd wager on both companies working on emulators -- perhaps not with full support for the entire back-catalog, but the popular titles plus whatever is lucky enough to come along for the ride, as the 360 did with the original XBox.

 

On one hand, emulating contemporary consoles on a PC is difficult because of architecture differences, and most especially because of the lack of suitably low-level interfaces to map the console interfaces to. I suspect that an API like Mantle would ease some of that pain on the PC, and that console-bound emulators get to sidestep at least that issue. Still no cake-walk to close the gap, but either setup reduces the distance between hither and yon pretty significantly I'd imagine.

 

Interestingly, but perhaps coincidentally, if you do the math on the 4 extra compute-only GPU clusters in the PS4, it works out to be exactly the same theoretical throughput as all 8 SPEs in the Cell processor. I think with relatively similar programming models, it probably wouldn't be beyond the realm of feasibility to write a dynamic recompiler to translate those SPE programs to vectorized GPU code. With that processing burden off the PS4 CPUs, there would seem to be plenty of horsepower left to emulate the PS3s single, in-order, dual-threaded PPC CPU.

 

If Sony can offload the SPE code in this way, they've probably got an easier task of emulating their previous console on the new one than Microsoft does (because Microsoft has 3x the PPC CPUs to emulate on an equal number of x86 cores as PS4, each with an extended altivec unit to make up for.)

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I'd wager on both companies working on emulators -- perhaps not with full support for the entire back-catalog, but the popular titles plus whatever is lucky enough to come along for the ride, as the 360 did with the original XBox.
Well the rumor on the Sony side was they'd integrate OnLive into the console and use that to deliver PS3 compatibility. That's the rumor I heard anyway.

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Rumour has it that MS themselves are working on a 360 emulator, to sell the back-catalogue of 360 games on Windows 8 (as a reinvention of the soon to be discontinued "Games for Windows Live" brand) and enable backwards compatibility on the Xbone.

 

A power-PC emulator for x86 systems? I'm still waiting a decent ARM emulator.. I know that MS could do some "binary magic" since it is MS stuff on MS stuff.... but rumours like those are usually just a joke... GFWL is just dead as system, sure they are gonna replace it with some-thing else (hopefully with a less-annoying DRM)...

 

 

 


I'd wager on both companies working on emulators -- perhaps not with full support for the entire back-catalog, but the popular titles plus whatever is lucky enough to come along for the ride, as the 360 did with the original XBox.
Well the rumor on the Sony side was they'd integrate OnLive into the console and use that to deliver PS3 compatibility. That's the rumor I heard anyway.

 

 

this could happen: AMD is working on virtualization and cloud/stream gaming (this last called "RapidFire"). Both Sony and especially Microsoft could be use those systems:

 

http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/graphics/software/Pages/remote-graphics-vdi.aspx

http://developer.amd.com/apu/home/sessions/

https://vts.inxpo.com/scripts/Server.nxp?LASCmd=AI:4;F:QS!10100&ShowKey=16356

Edited by Alessio1989

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It took almost 10 years for the ps2 emulator to reach version 1.0 and be usable and run smooth with recent computers (mine get 50-60 fps, sometime it kinda slowdown a bit), so, i guess that one will take a while (ps3 and xbox 360 aren't even able to play commercial games yet, except maybe 1 or 2)...

Edited by Vortez

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It took almost 10 years for the ps2 emulator to reach version 1.0 and be usable and run smooth

There is a world of difference between hobbyists building an emulator via reverse engineering, versus Microsoft/Sony's platform engineers building a thin emulator over their own hardware/OS.

 


A power-PC emulator for x86 systems?

As I mentioned previously, Apple had this running 6 years ago (complete with Altivec support) - a seasoned platform engineering team can certainly pull this off.

 

The GPU architecture is probably more of a hassle, but provided they have some vendor support from AMD, I doubt it to be insurmountable.

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you'd have to use copied game ISOs (prohibited),

 
Making the ISOs is not illegal. Distributing them is, however.

It is in the United States. Circumventing the DRM on the discs to make the ISO is in violation to the DMCA. Heck, making digital copies of DVDs is illegal in the USA as well.

Yea, our laws suck.

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I was going to ask if, instead of executing PPC code in a VM, whether you could translate it to x86 code -- after all .NET basically does this for MSIL/CIL->x86...
But clicking on swift's link above, that's exactly what Apple's emulator did. It's also what Windows and Linux for Itanium do if you want to run x86 code (JIT x86->IA64 translation).

If you were actually creating ports ahead of time (e.g. Games to be downloaded from the windows store), then instead of using JIT translation, you could decompile the code AOT, translate it, aggressively optimize it, then recompile it for the new platform.

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you'd have to use copied game ISOs (prohibited),

 
Making the ISOs is not illegal. Distributing them is, however.

 

It is in the United States. Circumventing the DRM on the discs to make the ISO is in violation to the DMCA. Heck, making digital copies of DVDs is illegal in the USA as well.

Yea, our laws suck.

 

 

Including archival copies?

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Including archival copies?
Pretty sure that if you defeat any kind of DRM/copy-protection device for any reason, it's flat out illegal. You can archive a VHS, but not a DVD (unless it's not encoded).

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Pretty sure that if you defeat any kind of DRM/copy-protection device for any reason, it's flat out illegal. You can archive a VHS, but not a DVD (unless it's not encoded)

I can see how that applies to ripping the contents a DVD. But a byte-by-byte copy (such as used to copy data CDs) clearly isn't circumventing the protections in the encoding...

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Pretty sure that if you defeat any kind of DRM/copy-protection device for any reason, it's flat out illegal. You can archive a VHS, but not a DVD (unless it's not encoded)

I can see how that applies to ripping the contents a DVD. But a byte-by-byte copy (such as used to copy data CDs) clearly isn't circumventing the protections in the encoding...

 

 

Who knows. Whether or not it is actually illegal may have more to do with the phase of the moon than anything else. The one thing you can be sure of is that if the big corporations even suspect that it effects them negatively, they are undoubtedly lobbying as we speak to make it a crime.

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Including archival copies?

You have a legal right to make archival copies.
You can't circumvent any encryption or DRM to make those copies. Newer disc formats (like those used by GameCube, Wii, WiiU, PS3, PS4, XBox, XBox 360, Xbox One) have special formats for better DRM - they aren't readable on standard disc drives - so using unlicensed special hardware to read them even byte-by-byte might count as circumvention.
 

Even DVDs have certain encryption on them - in those cases, since you can use a regular DVD reader (licensed), the 'circumvention' probably occurs by using software that illegally uses the DVD encryption algorithms for playing the ISOs of the disc, since the specific algorithm for decrypting the DVD data movie format ("DVD-Video") is likely patented and licensed only to those who sign agreements with the DVD Forum. Or something like that - I only know a few bits and pieces of the details.

 

What counts as circumvention or not isn't yet clear (at least, it's not clear to me) - and won't become clear until things are tried in court and a firm ruling is passed down. Corporate organizations likes RIAA and similar will just sue knowing individual consumers will have to settle or go bankrupt by the time the year-long (or longer) trial actually winds through the court, so no ruling actually gets made.

 

It's all a big muck of vagueness. Our older copyright laws have been "patched" with newer stricter laws in response to the digital revolution.
Sony Betamax rulings are still in effect (more freedom for consumers), but DMCA adds new barriers making it impractical to exercise those freedoms.
 
Our copyright laws need some drastic overhaul (in my personal opinion). Thankfully, things do seem to be getting slightly better (maybe), as lawmakers become more aware (slightly) about new technology, but everything is still too vague. The majority of the content on YouTube is illegal, but the average consumer doesn't know it, so to paraphrase the creator of the creative commons: 'If the majority of the public is doing something illegal every day without knowing it, should we haul them all to prison or use it as an indicator that maybe our laws need to change?' (heavily paraphrased, from memory).

 

</can of worms>

Edited by Servant of the Lord

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Pretty sure that if you defeat any kind of DRM/copy-protection device for any reason, it's flat out illegal. You can archive a VHS, but not a DVD (unless it's not encoded)

I can see how that applies to ripping the contents a DVD. But a byte-by-byte copy (such as used to copy data CDs) clearly isn't circumventing the protections in the encoding...

That's the problem though -- DVD DRM prevents byte-for-byte copies from working: the resulting copy is just a scrambled mess, unless you use the appropriate decryption keys while copying. Simply using these keys (which are now common knowledge thanks to leaks and hackers) counts as circumvention of a copy-protection device.

You need to circumvent the copy-protection system in order to make a valid copy, the act of which is illegal (the act of making a tool to assist in the process is also illegal).

DMCA for the win... and sadly, these provisions are about to spread to a huge number of other countries via being paperclipped to the TPP "free trade" argeement -- a deal that anyone in in the nations involved should be pissed about -- besides the DMCA bullshit, it has provisions to allow foreign corporations to place themselves higher than the legislative branch of the government!

Edited by Hodgman

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