Maybe a prototype will move the discussion forward :)

http://www.silverlemur.com/work/ir-prototype.zip

(the mechanic is as described in the first post, just made some cosmetic changes and added half working map)

I gave the demo a quick try. But I couldn't figure out what was going on. I just built in one province till most of my population was employed then hit next turn a few times. I gained a bunch of resources but that was it.

What am I suppose to be doing?

What limits my development? Building factories doesn't seem to consume any resources or take any time.

There was a wage figure but if there was money involved anywhere in the game than I can't see where it comes from.

Thanks for trying the prototype!

Allocation phase (move stuff from one stack/node to another, for a cost of some form) . Some nodes have good connections (canals/rivers) and cost nothing, wile others are very expensive (push it through!)

I was thinking about trasporting resources (allocation) but I think I will ignore that part. The thing is the game is turn based, so it's kind like a "photo". Moving resources is best for realtime (note that *all* games that are about moving stuff around (Roailroad Tycoon, Settlers) are realtime), where you have a "movie", you can see the goods actually moving. For turn based... I don't think it could be presented in an equally good way.

So, I think I will just skip it and make "all resources being available to all factories" as a sort of central country stockpile. Or maybe just add "if a steel foundry is in a province that has coal mine it gets +20% efficiency".

I gave the demo a quick try. But I couldn't figure out what was going on. I just built in one province till most of my population was employed then hit next turn a few times. I gained a bunch of resources but that was it.

What am I suppose to be doing?

What limits my development? Building factories doesn't seem to consume any resources or take any time.

There was a wage figure but if there was money involved anywhere in the game than I can't see where it comes from.

Most of it was not implemented yet (mostly because I was mendling with moving resources between provinces). So I will just describe hoiw I plan it to look

* building factories uses planks, bricks and money; it's conctructed instantly but you have to wait till workers populate it, so in practice it would take several turns before it reaches full efficiency

* each factory has automatic set wages, you pay it to workers

* all population pay tax (partially based on wages)

* all population consume some resources (food, furniture, cloths and other consumer goods) each turn (farmers consumption is halved, except food), they pay you for it (based on average wages); if there is shortage of food some die, if shortage of consumer goods (unlikely except beginning) they are unhappy

* generally you produce more goods your population can consume, so you want to export finished goods, that would be an important source of income

Unless you have other/better idea I will implement the system above.

What if instead paying salaries. You had a tierd population system like in the Cesar games? Basic level 1 people only consume food. As long you have enough to food to feed people they are happy and productive. But if you want them advance to higher levels then you need to make goods and a services available to them. A level 2 citizen might require access to one finished good a turn, while a level 10 requires access to all goods and services.

Ideas for advantage of Higher citizen levels:

• Increased tax revenue
• Improved efficiency a level 2 citizen might be 20% more effective then a level 1.
• Minimum levels for buildings. A hospital might only employ level 5+
• Private buildings. Level 4s might quit their factory jobs and start opening stores, and restaurants, which increases happiness and culture.
• Unlock useful bonuses - Get enough level 5s together and they open up a private shipping business which provides a small steady stream of export revenue.
• Tech upgrades - Higher level citizens have a better chance of discovering a new technology for you to use.

What if instead paying salaries. You had a tierd population system like in the Cesar games?

* how to call those tiers/levels of population?

* there is already "pops level" in a form of education, that was important in that era and I wouldn't want to get rid of schools... Education might be redundant with those tiers of pops.

* how to upgrade pops to higher tiers? Manualy or automatic? What happens if there is not enough luxury goods (required downgrade)?

In the caesar games upgrades were automatic once a household had access to the necessary resources or services. For instance to go from level 3 to 4 might require you have school in that province. Not building a school means that even if you supplied every other resource your pop never surpassed level 3.

What happened in ceaser is you built a say a pottery workshop and a market every house within range of the market gained pottery as long as you had enough production to supply them. Insufficient pots meant houses either didn't upgrade or downgraded. There was no player interaction in the upgrade process beyond building the right products and services. As soon as a house had what they needed they upgraded and if they couldn't get it for long enough they downgraded.

What I would suggest is that each turn if you have enough service and resource capacity available in a province then a percentage of the people advance one level. Resources and services covers everything from toilet paper to a university. The player is then challanged to have the right mix up population, production, and services.

Maybe like this (please, make a sanity check, especially if that's not too complex):

* I agree that promotion to higher classes should be automatic. Manual worked in Imperialism 1 & 2, but they had no provinces with separate population.

* I think I will need 3 classes:

1) peasants (farmers, sherpherds, fishermen, wood cutters), they require no housing and have low consumption needs

2) labourers (factory workers, miners), they benefit from basic education

3) intellectuals (teachers, clerks, administrators), high education is critical, sophisticated consumption needs, require luxury goods

Consumption - population do not pay for goods, just consume it. It increases their happiness (each class separately). So, it's easy to keep peasants happy since they don't require much consumer goods, but if you want highly educated intellectuals you need spice, sugar, tabaco and other stuff.

Efficiency - the happiness affects efficiency (each class separately), also education affects efficiency (except peasants). Therefore a happy and highly educated pops are more efficient in their jobs.

Money flow (sort of) - population is being paid by production facilities (farms, mines, factories), but they never spend any money, it just increases their happiness. Population pay taxes, which reduces their happiness. The player can also get money by exporting finshed goods (the prefered method of getting funds, since it allows high wages and low taxes, therefore a happy population).

Migration & jobs & promotions - the migration and jobs taken would be driven by happiness. Each production facility would have wages, it attracts workers. Also, highly educated pops would get more happiness from haigher class jobs (educated don't want to be peasants anymore) even if the wages are worse. A portion of population would each turn check the happiness of lower and higher class, if these are better than their current one they will promote/demote one level.

Do you want (complex) road systems appearing/build and units moving around the map,

or rather just having each province have some icons to represent some factories, a railroadstation and some military bases ?

No, definitely not complex. The game is not about transporting goods. There can be roads and railroads, but more like a variable, not the core mechanic.

As for units, I strongly prefer to avoid them, or to minimize that aspect.

Generally I want provinces (with icons as you described) and then detailed province view (with info what exactly the province has).