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Silentcupidz

The idea of mixing JRPG and Western RPG's into one game?

34 posts in this topic

Now I've played both genres along the lines of;

 

Skyrim

Persona series

Final Fantasy Series

etc.

 

and i thought of an idea about merging a J-RPG with Western RPG's. Like, feeling emotion, desire etc. for a game and having freedom and choices of your own in a game. Having a linear plot but being able to explore the world without finishing the story, only when you feel like it.

 

Then i thought of the multiple risks and complications that could have such as;

 

How would gameplay play out?

How would story play out?

How would character development play out with a western rpg base?

How would you create intense cutscenes?

Who would play this game?

Why would they play it?

Would the game be a mess having two complete genres merged?

Am i just trying to keep both gamers happy?

Should i just pick one side?

What concept should i choose to overcome these issues?

 

So after 5 hours of thinking (Yupp x.x) i figured i'd ask a forum. Because i felt it'll take on a big risk and i wouldn't want to hurt any core gamers with my decisions. Also i felt as if i need to stick to one side or '' risk it for a chocolate biscuit '' and go ahead with it, making sure i planned out every possible Do's and Dont's, Impossible's and Possibles, Risks and the ''go ahead's''.

 

What do you think? Should there be a game where these concepts ARE mixed or should it just stay the same? by choosing one concept and adapting it to my idea?

 

The concepts and philosophies that i chose were;

 

WKC - sense of linear story and exploration. Deciding when you want to finish the story but it still feels like a one way path

 

Pokemon - (Not in the sense of catching pokemon and winning badges in the sense of exploring a world but following a story, choosing whether or not you want to continue on with that story. You can just explore or level up and meet characters and just follow a side story or follow the main story without even looking at the side stories at all. )

 

Final Fantasy - Narrative and detailed stories and cinematic cutscenes. Also a party system.

 

Skyrim - The desire to put 300+ hours into a game with little efforts of a story. (But this makes it boring after i while, i noticed)

 

Any reply is appreciated. Thank you.

 

(C) SilentCupidz - All Rights Reserved (Only here so this post can't be reposted by anyone else)

Edited by Silentcupidz
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XD okay so after waiting a day, i got no replies. straight to the point, my question is:

 

Would it be a good idea to Add JRPG and western RPG elements into one game?

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I haven't played enough modern RPGs to know the exact differences, but sounds like an excellent idea, something of a perfect RPG, if it can be done well. I think Skyrim kind of tries to do this but it's not easy to pull off. If you can choose 100 different routes, how do you make sure that the important moments with great emotion is encountered in each one?

It also feels pretty dumb if you can explore a huge world but nothing really happens until you return to the exact place where the story continues.

One solution could be to write 1000 very good stories, and interweave them into a huge world where the player can move around as he pleases. Probably not every choice would make a good story but the player would be drawn to creating a good story by himself.

I think Skyrim is a reasonable implementation of this where the story elements simply hasn't quite filled the entire world, but a Skyrim with even longer development time could probably come closer.

 

A more linear version I seem to remember is an old SNES game called Seiken densetsu 3 if I recall correctly, where the story is linear but you can choose different characters to play and you encounter different perspectives of the story.

 

Another example, that might still be pretty sci-fi in terms of a real implementation, is to have something like 10 kingdoms, each with 10 families or factions or just people with their own agendas, and the whole thing would be a simulation that kept going for say 100 hours, and the players choices during those 100 hours simply influenced the simulation. Something in the direction of a Civilization game, but from the perspective of one soldier and more microsimulation.

Then most of the development work would be rules and balancing and content for this huge simulation, making it lead to emotional results while allowing meaningful player interaction. Should be doable, given enough time and effort, but we're talking years for 100 people, and the writing part of such a game would be continuous during development, and probably not much like a manuscript.

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I haven't played enough modern RPGs to know the exact differences, but sounds like an excellent idea, something of a perfect RPG, if it can be done well. I think Skyrim kind of tries to do this but it's not easy to pull off. If you can choose 100 different routes, how do you make sure that the important moments with great emotion is encountered in each one?
It also feels pretty dumb if you can explore a huge world but nothing really happens until you return to the exact place where the story continues.
One solution could be to write 1000 very good stories, and interweave them into a huge world where the player can move around as he pleases. Probably not every choice would make a good story but the player would be drawn to creating a good story by himself.
I think Skyrim is a reasonable implementation of this where the story elements simply hasn't quite filled the entire world, but a Skyrim with even longer development time could probably come closer.

 

So what i'm getting from you is that Skyrim would indirectly be my concept basis? In which i should adapt from? and your solution actually makes sense, of course, if done well. Let me give you a scenario of an idea i had just after reading this:

 

We have our main character that the player is equip to.

We venture off into this huge world after an intro and eventually meeting a new character.

We'll call her Y.

Now from the start, you are given a choice to start your story with Y. if you do, she becomes interwoven into your custom story.

You play on with your newly acquired party and head on through the world, getting involved with other stories that fit the characters you met so far (which would mean thinking about an entire branch of options and dialogue and ''If's and Buts''.)

At certain points, there'll be twists (and this becomes certain or unlikely depending on the route you took into your custom story. NPC's would warn you about certain places so you are not venturing off into a sudden death zone but it's up to you depending on yet again, your choices.) where you'd have to decide what you want to do, who you'd want to save and where you would want to go from here. These choices build up and sometimes you won't have even a second to choose a choice so it has to become instinct.

 

Lol it all sounds very complex i know. But it sounds like a very detailed branch of events i'd have to think about. Obviously keeping Skyrim my basis and adapting from it so players don't get convoluted into the story that they are creating. So a solution at this moment would be to have a background story of the world you are in and it's up to you to adapt from it.

 

*LARGE INHALE* something like that? haha

 

EDIT: also, it would be fair to allow the player to somewhat be reminded of their story so far so they somehow understand their own story? XD i'm either thinking too hard on this or making it confusing to myself...

Edited by Silentcupidz
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Sounds like a good premise. The main problem that I see is that it simply becomes too big before it can fill an open world the size of Skyrim's. There will need to be such a large decision-tree that it will be very difficult to manually create all the branches.

 

Because of this I somehow imagine that to reach something like that we might be better off to not make the game player-driven, in the sense that the game is instead a long movie of N number of hours that plays through no matter if the player moves from his starting position or not, and he only chooses his place in this movie. Then the difficult part in creating such a game is to make it possible for the player to find his way into interesting parts of the movie, and to decide how much he can actually influence the plot. But that's just one guess, theoretically anything could be done.

The advantage of such an approach is that it makes the decision tree smaller, as the world only needs be filled for a certain number of hours.

 

In a perfect scenario a writer would sit behind the monitor and write the story as the player goes along, determining each NPC decision based on what the player does. As the number of choices and the size of the world grows, the number of decisions becomes so huge that they cannot possibly all be written in advance. I think that is where Skyrim falls short, in that there are a few small dots in the world where there is an actual story, and the rest is an empty world, so that's where they try to create a balance where a large part of the game is instead about exploring or fighting or leveling up, because filling the whole world with story just isn't realistically doable.

 

I think the party aspect sounds very good, and might in itself solve a lot of the problems. If you create interaction between the members of your party, and allows the player to choose which of his party members desires to follow, and perhaps give each party member an emotional tie to different parts of the world, that could create a much more emotional experience. Come to think of it, that might well be the best part of such RPGs, the emotional part is very often about what happens to the members of your party.

In Skyrim you are supposed to play yourself, you can customize your characters to your liking, while in the story centered RPGs the game is about you as the player fighting for the members of your party.

So the real challenge might be in making an open world make sense for a party-driven game. This is already somehow solved for MMORPGs where the party is real people, but for a story-driven game the characters would need to be written so there is emotional benefit in exploring the world.

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I think the party aspect sounds very good, and might in itself solve a lot of the problems. If you create interaction between the members of your party, and allows the player to choose which of his party members desires to follow, and perhaps give each party member an emotional tie to different parts of the world, that could create a much more emotional experience. Come to think of it, that might well be the best part of such RPGs, the emotional part is very often about what happens to the members of your party.
In Skyrim you are supposed to play yourself, you can customize your characters to your liking, while in the story centered RPGs the game is about you as the player fighting for the members of your party.
So the real challenge might be in making an open world make sense for a party-driven game. This is already somehow solved for MMORPGs where the party is real people, but for a story-driven game the characters would need to be written so there is emotional benefit in exploring the world.

 

This part was the actual paragraph to make sense to me to be honest lol I see alot of potential on where i can go with the party aspect. I actually have a few gameplay/story mechanics that the party will have, in the sense of tying characters to other places. So what you said actually helped out alot in the sense of creating emotion through my characters and somehow creating stories in other parts of the game's world.

 

But there was some advice that you gave that just made me go ''O _ O wait what?'' like:

 


The main problem that I see is that it simply becomes too big before it can fill an open world the size of Skyrim's. There will need to be such a large decision-tree that it will be very difficult to manually create all the branches.

 

Does this mean that manually creating a decision tree for an open world with this concept will be close to impossible to do? o _o?

 


in the sense that the game is instead a long movie of N number of hours that plays through no matter if the player moves from his starting position or not, and he only chooses his place in this movie. Then the difficult part in creating such a game is to make it possible for the player to find his way into interesting parts of the movie, and to decide how much he can actually influence the plot. But that's just one guess, theoretically anything could be done.
The advantage of such an approach is that it makes the decision tree smaller, as the world only needs be filled for a certain number of hours.

 

So what you are saying is to make the actual open world a real time simulation of stories going on? And the player can choose which story he puts himself in? by for example, finding the X area by chance and triggering a storyline?

And about ''making the decision tree smaller, as the world only needs to be filled for a certain number of hours'', Does this mean that i would only need to create a decision tree in different areas and just implement that decision tree into the bigger one? in the sense that the character has gotten this far? or to make sense (haha) only make decision trees in an area and not include a default plot type decision tree where, as you said, will become too big to manually create?

 


In a perfect scenario a writer would sit behind the monitor and write the story as the player goes along, determining each NPC decision based on what the player does. As the number of choices and the size of the world grows, the number of decisions becomes so huge that they cannot possibly all be written in advance. I think that is where Skyrim falls short, in that there are a few small dots in the world where there is an actual story, and the rest is an empty world, so that's where they try to create a balance where a large part of the game is instead about exploring or fighting or leveling up, because filling the whole world with story just isn't realistically doable.

 

In my opinion, i felt you were about to actually go on and talk about a branching narrative like The Walking Dead, in which the NPC's actions are from what you chose. but when you went on to talk from ''  As the number of choices and the size of the world grows,... '' i completely lost you, Erik x( 

 

Btw, thank you for your input. I actually feel like once i sort out the kicks of this concept, i'd actually have something to go on! 

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This part was the actual paragraph to make sense to me to be honest lol I see alot of potential on where i can go with the party aspect. I actually have a few gameplay/story mechanics that the party will have, in the sense of tying characters to other places. So what you said actually helped out alot in the sense of creating emotion through my characters and somehow creating stories in other parts of the game's world.

 

Sounds like a great place to start, and can surely lead to a great game.

 

 


But there was some advice that you gave that just made me go ''O _ O wait what?'' like:

 

I think a lot of my posts is just throwing several ideas out at once, as I don't I feel I have a complete sense of what could work and what couldn't, as probably no one does or the game would already exist. :)

 


Does this mean that manually creating a decision tree for an open world with this concept will be close to impossible to do? o _o?

 

Not necessarily, I think the party aspect could make it possible. As your party is always with you, the building blocks for emotional development is always right there. It would be much easier to fill the world with elements that triggered such development in the party, rather than for example making the world or an NPC have very complicated development depending on the players actions. Also, if there is a complicated development in the world, then the player would have to come back to that place all the time to benefit from it, while as the party moves with the player the rewards for an achievement always stay with the player.

In Skyrim the only thing that really stays with you while exploring is your armor and your skills.

 

If the party is the main source of attachment for the player, it will also be easier to keep the complicated decision trees more manageable, and for the world outside the party, simpler decision trees might pass as more acceptable.

 


So what you are saying is to make the actual open world a real time simulation of stories going on? And the player can choose which story he puts himself in? by for example, finding the X area by chance and triggering a storyline?

 

Something like that. This part of my post was just a theory on how one might imagine implementing something that at the moment feels rather impossible to implement, and I don't think I really have anything substantial on that. :) Basically just replacing the ever-present writer with a reasonable emotional simulation that works hand in hand with certain predesigned story elements. For example there are chat-bots that are quite difficult to distinguish from real people, and one could imagine developing such a bot into a character in the game, and having them follow certain story lines to the best of their simulated ability. Again, nothing that's realistic to combine with a real story right now, but sooner or later it will probably be done.

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Erik Rufelt

 

Oh alright. Well i see that the party aspect would be my actual core reason for any player to play such a game. For example, letting the player feel attachment to his party creating motivation and emotion in character's he'd be happy to let go and sad to watch a character leave him. making him feel desire to somehow get them back and trekking on through his journey. :D

 

And with the simulation thing, after a few tries trying yet again to understand XD i figured i might have a small idea that could come CLOSE to such a theory. So i'll see what i can come up with. Thanks alot!

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One such game which does this is The Last Story. It combines the story telling of JRPGs with gameplay mechanics from Western RPGs. The game is very much story-driven and centres around around a party of seven characters. The personalities of these characters develops through the story. Although you control mainly just one character throughout the game, different party members will accompany you during different parts of the story. Combat is heavily based on Western action games. It's in real time, it's fast-paced, and even has a cover-system as well as 3rd person shooting mechanics. This might be a good game to get some ideas from.

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One such game which does this is The Last Story. It combines the story telling of JRPGs with gameplay mechanics from Western RPGs. The game is very much story-driven and centres around around a party of seven characters. The personalities of these characters develops through the story. Although you control mainly just one character throughout the game, different party members will accompany you during different parts of the story. Combat is heavily based on Western action games. It's in real time, it's fast-paced, and even has a cover-system as well as 3rd person shooting mechanics. This might be a good game to get some ideas from.

 


Seiken densetsu 3

 

I'll be sure to give these games a go considering the fact that they both have concepts that i can adapt from. although they seem simple, i can still get an idea on how i can start my story. Pros n Cons lol

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I would also consider creating an overarching story that is essentially the same throughout the game no matter which path you choose. The problem with the story progression you described earlier is that it never builds to something greater - it's just a series of unrelated events that happen one after the other with no clear goal in mind. To drive the story forward you need a clear goal from the very beginning. Many unrelated events can happen in between for sure, but you always need to remind the player what their main goal is.

 

In many RPGs (or any game, for that matter) this main goal is often about stopping some kind of global threat. This could work well in a game with many branching story paths. You could meet different people depending on where you explore and who you talk to. These people would have the same goal of stopping this global threat, but may approach it in very different ways. And of course, all of the in between events that occur along the way would be completely different depending on who's in your party and what decisions you have made.

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I would also consider creating an overarching story that is essentially the same throughout the game no matter which path you choose. The problem with the story progression you described earlier is that it never builds to something greater - it's just a series of unrelated events that happen one after the other with no clear goal in mind. To drive the story forward you need a clear goal from the very beginning. Many unrelated events can happen in between for sure, but you always need to remind the player what their main goal is.

 

I actually did consider that! :)

 


So a solution at this moment would be to have a background story of the world you are in and it's up to you to adapt from it

 

obviously, i described something different than making an overarching story line. But i basically mentioned the fact of some kind of overarching story line. But as Erik stated in #5:

 


Sounds like a good premise. The main problem that I see is that it simply becomes too big before it can fill an open world the size of Skyrim's. There will need to be such a large decision-tree that it will be very difficult to manually create all the branches.

 

Having an overarching story will need to happen, but with the concept i'm going for, i think making all those decision trees along the line of the story would take a large amount of branches from what i got from him. Doesn't mean i won't do it if all else fails. I was thinking of having an ''ultimate goal'' come from your party than from the actual story.If that makes sense? or would that just confuse things?

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I was thinking of having an ''ultimate goal'' come from your party than from the actual story.If that makes sense? or would that just confuse things?

 

Perhaps it would confuse things, but it would certainly multiply the workload of writing the story. You will essentially be writing an entire story line for each ultimate goal you plan to have. It would also make your game seem like it's several games in one, which may be a good or bad thing depending on what you're going for. I think it would be much easier to write a story line with a single goal in mind, then work your way backwards by creating branching paths which lead up to it. You should also consider making some of these paths converge, so even though the events near the beginning of story can be radically different depending on the choices you make, they may end up reaching a similar point halfway through the story before splitting up once again.

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I think it would be much easier to write a story line with a single goal in mind, then work your way backwards by creating branching paths which lead up to it. You should also consider making some of these paths converge, so even though the events near the beginning of story can be radically different depending on the choices you make, they may end up reaching a similar point halfway through the story before splitting up once again.

 

Do you mean working backwards so no matter what happens i'd end up with a few ''ending'' possibilities? and by ''converge'' wouldn't that make a dna effect? meaning it'll branch out then come back in then branch out again?

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Do you mean working backwards so no matter what happens i'd end up with a few ''ending'' possibilities? and by ''converge'' wouldn't that make a dna effect? meaning it'll branch out then come back in then branch out again?

 

Yes, exactly. By having the events all come to the same few endings it will really make the game come full circle rather than feeling open-ended. And yes, converging events would create that effect.

 

Another thing which would greatly help the sense of unity is to create several large scale events which occur in the world and are somehow tied to the overarching story line. These large scale events would occur no matter what path you're on, but the path you've chosen will effect how you interact with those events. For example, imagine that at a fixed point in the timeline there's an army which attacks a city. Depending on your current branching path, you may find yourself in a number of positions. Perhaps you're at the front lines of this attacking arming, or maybe you've enlisted in the militia of the city and are defending it. Or maybe you just happen to be strolling through the city at the time of attack. Or perhaps you're in a distant land altogether and you only hear word of the attack. Or maybe you've found a way to prevent the attack before it even happens, such as by helping form a truce of some kind.

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Yes, exactly. By having the events all come to the same few endings it will really make the game come full circle rather than feeling open-ended. And yes, converging events would create that effect.
 
Another thing which would greatly help the sense of unity is to create several large scale events which occur in the world and are somehow tied to the overarching story line. These large scale events would occur no matter what path you're on, but the path you've chosen will effect how you interact with those events. For example, imagine that at a fixed point in the timeline there's an army which attacks a city. Depending on your current branching path, you may find yourself in a number of positions. Perhaps you're at the front lines of this attacking arming, or maybe you've enlisted in the militia of the city and are defending it. Or maybe you just happen to be strolling through the city at the time of attack. Or perhaps you're in a distant land altogether and you only hear word of the attack. Or maybe you've found a way to prevent the attack before it even happens, such as by helping form a truce of some kind.

 

Taking my concept in mind, i went over it with a few friends interested in the concept and they told me of doing a ''banishment'' or ''redemption'' story. Where you have lost respect of the community and so you are banished from there, but at the end they need you back or something. most of the characters you meet hate you because of what you have done. And so you go on with these characters trying to understand each other as a group etc. Which i felt went with my modern theme and party attachment core element. but what do you think? i figure it sounds a little superhero-esqe

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Probably the reason there were no replies the first day was because Thanksgiving.

 

I'm interested in designing this kind of hybrid RPG.  I'd probably describe it more like "interactive story core + sandboxy customization peripherals" rather than j+western.  Skyrim is a pretty good place to start, but so is WoW, if you consider things like the starting quest chains per race that do some character development, and the core quest chains for each class where you unlock abilities of that class, another bit of character development.  Other MMOs may have core quest chains per profession or faction that the player chooses to join during the course of the game, corresponding to the Stormcloak vs. Imperials quests in Skyrim.

 

I'd consider my WildWright MMO design and my + collaboraters' Xenallure single-player RPG design to both be this kind of hybrid.  And the older single-player RPG concept Gimmie Those Wings, though it has less sandbox/crafting elements.

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Probably the reason there were no replies the first day was because Thanksgiving.

 

Ahh tongue.png I totally forgot about that because most people in the UK (that i know of) do not celebrate thanksgiving so that theory totally slipped my mind! haha

 

 

 


I'm interested in designing this kind of hybrid RPG.  I'd probably describe it more like "interactive story core + sandboxy customization peripherals" rather than j+western.  Skyrim is a pretty good place to start, but so is WoW, if you consider things like the starting quest chains per race that do some character development, and the core quest chains for each class where you unlock abilities of that class, another bit of character development.  Other MMOs may have core quest chains per profession or faction that the player chooses to join during the course of the game, corresponding to the Stormcloak vs. Imperials quests in Skyrim.
 
I'd consider my WildWright MMO design and my + collaboraters' Xenallure single-player RPG design to both be this kind of hybrid.  And the older single-player RPG concept Gimmie Those Wings, though it has less sandbox/crafting elements.

 

Although i'd probably describe it to be an interactive story core + Sandbox customization peripherals myself. I wouldn't want to take this concept down a MMO path, since MMO's are quite lazy in a sense that most people don't play it for the story and secondly MMO's take a long time to complete. Don't get me wrong, games in general take a considerable while to finish but MMO's are just not ''up my alley'' to create. Even though i've played quite a few of them. (Tera, Aion and WoW - The other's are just copycats to WoW)

 

I want to take my story into a more serious territory and immerse players into the game for the story rather than the quests and other things to do. That's why my concept right now requires heavy decision trees etc. Because my core element is the STORY then the GAMEPLAY.

 

Although it doesn't mean i won't put any effort into GAMEPLAY. I want my gameplay to be a fun aspect as you enjoy the story obviously.

Edited by Silentcupidz
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Probably the reason there were no replies the first day was because Thanksgiving.

 
Ahh tongue.png I totally forgot about that because most people in the UK (that i know of) do not celebrate thanksgiving so that theory totally slipped my mind! haha

 

 
Yeah, approximately 2/3 of Gamedev's posters are in the US so a lot of us were in turkey comas or on the highway or at the house of parents who live in the stone age with no wifi, lol.
 

 

I'm interested in designing this kind of hybrid RPG.  I'd probably describe it more like "interactive story core + sandboxy customization peripherals" rather than j+western.  Skyrim is a pretty good place to start, but so is WoW, if you consider things like the starting quest chains per race that do some character development, and the core quest chains for each class where you unlock abilities of that class, another bit of character development.  Other MMOs may have core quest chains per profession or faction that the player chooses to join during the course of the game, corresponding to the Stormcloak vs. Imperials quests in Skyrim.
 
I'd consider my WildWright MMO design and my + collaboraters' Xenallure single-player RPG design to both be this kind of hybrid.  And the older single-player RPG concept Gimmie Those Wings, though it has less sandbox/crafting elements.


 
Although i'd probably describe it to be an interactive story core + Sandbox customization peripherals myself. I wouldn't want to take this concept down a MMO path, since MMO's are quite lazy in a sense that most people don't play it for the story and secondly MMO's take a long time to complete. Don't get me wrong, games in general take a considerable while to finish but MMO's are just not ''up my alley'' to create. Even though i've played quite a few of them. (Tera, Aion and WoW - The other's are just copycats to WoW)
 
I want to take my story into a more serious territory and immerse players into the game for the story rather than the quests and other things to do. That's why my concept right now requires heavy decision trees etc. Because my core element is the STORY then the GAMEPLAY.
 
Although it doesn't mean i won't put any effort into GAMEPLAY. I want my gameplay to be a fun aspect as you enjoy the story obviously.

 

I agree that it's more practical to want to make a single-player game than an MMO. I just personally love MMOs and find them an irresistible challenge to design. But single-player RPGs are interesting to design also.

I think, if you want the core element of your game to be the story, you need to find a core story concept before you worry too much about the details of what exact features should or shouldn't be in your hybrid blend of gameplay. What is your game going to be about? Is there a mystery beneath the surface of the world or explaining the initial surprising events of the story and subsequent discoveries of new abilities and goals that become available to attempt throughout the game? Is there a buildungsroman dynamic where an initially young, poor, uneducated, or etc. person gains skills, wealth, possessions, and social standing including romance? Those are usually the two things I start with. Some games go more for fighting a great evil, getting revenge, retrieving something that has been stolen, escaping imminent danger from persistent bad guys, etc.

Edited by sunandshadow
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Yeah, approximately 2/3 of Gamedev's posters are in the US so a lot of us were in turkey comas or on the highway or at the house of parents who live in the stone age with no wifi, lol.

 

Well if you had thanksgiving, i hope you had a good one. smile.png

 

 

 


I think, if you want the core element of your game to be the story, you need to find a core story concept before you worry too much about the details of what exact features should or shouldn't be in your hybrid blend of gameplay. What is your game going to be about? Is there a mystery beneath the surface of the world or explaining the initial surprising events of the story and subsequent discoveries of new abilities and goals that become available to attempt throughout the game? Is there a buildungsroman dynamic where an initially young, poor, uneducated, or etc. person gains skills, wealth, possessions, and social standing including romance? Those are usually the two things I start with. Some games go more for fighting a great evil, getting revenge, retrieving something that has been stolen, escaping imminent danger from persistent bad guys, etc.

 

Yeah i'm actually thinking of my story at this very moment in time. i do have a post in here somewhere of one of my ideas:

 

EDIT: (I want it to be related to a modern political theme but in fantasy setting. which is why banishment sounded good. Like how Mass effect and Final Fantasy XII use this setting, i want to bring it more forward, for example. Imagine earth was merged into fantasy? you know?)

 


Taking my concept in mind, i went over it with a few friends interested in the concept and they told me of doing a ''banishment'' or ''redemption'' story. Where you have lost respect of the community and so you are banished from there, but at the end they need you back or something. most of the characters you meet hate you because of what you have done. And so you go on with these characters trying to understand each other as a group etc. Which i felt went with my modern theme and party attachment core element. but what do you think? i figure it sounds a little superhero-esqe
Edited by Silentcupidz
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Yeah I had a great holiday - got to see both my mom and dad play Wii games, that was funny.  Got some of my favorite kind of pie too :D (pecan).

 

Anyway, dirty politics isn't really my cup of tea, nor is anything that can be described with the word "modern" in any way, but I tried to make some helpful comments. :)

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Try not to think too much in terms of restrictive concepts of games that you have played in the past. That tends to lead to retreads of older games. Plenty of people (myself among them) love both Skyrim and Final Fantasy games. That doesn't mean I wanna play a game that just takes certain parts of both games and mashes them together.

 

Think first of the story you want to tell. If people can't buy into the story, chances are even decent gameplay won't be enough to keep someone interested for long. Think of the motivations for why we want to care about certain characters and loathe others, and the events that mold a character from a piece of clay to the person we cheer for, cry for, or seethe at. Good examples in media of this are Walter White in Breaking Bad and Spartacus in the TV Series that ended recently. You start with someone that you don't have much emotional connection to and the process of breaking them down and building them up is paced but methodical and without waste. Probably why both are excellent TV shows.

 

Now think about gameplay elements that you find fun. Don't think about what genre they fit into, but what makes those elements fun and why you'd want to play that game. If you don't find your own gameplay fun, no one else is likely to either. Don't be afraid to experiment, but don't go out of your way to complicate things or make it seem too much like work. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan, but random battles that at times happen almost in lightning fast succession are meant to artificially lengthen the game and have no place in a modern RPG, no matter whether it's a "JRPG" or a western RPG.

 

Third, don't be lazy. Be willing to spend time tweaking game systems to get them right. Be willing to toss out concepts that you like but that don't add to the enjoyment of a game. And be willing to give your characters a really hard time. All powerful characters that always win and never suffer hardship are not going to become those characters like the ones I mentioned who people live and die by.

 

p.s.- when constructing the story itself, try hard to stay away from old cliches. "The chosen one," "the young girl gifted in magic," and "the old wizened wizard" are so stale in terms of rpgs that most people will instantly shy away from games that go there nowadays. Be ready to tell stories that are not expected.

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Try not to think too much in terms of restrictive concepts of games that you have played in the past. That tends to lead to retreads of older games. Plenty of people (myself among them) love both Skyrim and Final Fantasy games. That doesn't mean I wanna play a game that just takes certain parts of both games and mashes them together.

 

Which means i should stray away from my concept all together and come back with something else because further and further down the line i'm finding it hard to even enjoy my game MYSELF right now, so i see what you mean.

 

 

 


Think first of the story you want to tell. If people can't buy into the story, chances are even decent gameplay won't be enough to keep someone interested for long. Think of the motivations for why we want to care about certain characters and loathe others, and the events that mold a character from a piece of clay to the person we cheer for, cry for, or seethe at. Good examples in media of this are Walter White in Breaking Bad and Spartacus in the TV Series that ended recently. You start with someone that you don't have much emotional connection to and the process of breaking them down and building them up is paced but methodical and without waste. Probably why both are excellent TV shows.

 

I've actually been having this in mind. keeping my motivation on '' what makes characters so loved? hated? '' and such. But character's are easy to create if i work on them. But a story is harder and i'm actually thinking about a story first before adapting it, but it's hard of course.

 

 

 


Now think about gameplay elements that you find fun. Don't think about what genre they fit into, but what makes those elements fun and why you'd want to play that game. If you don't find your own gameplay fun, no one else is likely to either. Don't be afraid to experiment, but don't go out of your way to complicate things or make it seem too much like work. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan, but random battles that at times happen almost in lightning fast succession are meant to artificially lengthen the game and have no place in a modern RPG, no matter whether it's a "JRPG" or a western RPG.

 

I've kept this in mind too. I've been trying to hard to make my game original but it's becoming more complicated than original in which most Silent hill stories become when trying to be original. (even though SH isn't RPG lol)

 

 

 


Third, don't be lazy. Be willing to spend time tweaking game systems to get them right. Be willing to toss out concepts that you like but that don't add to the enjoyment of a game. And be willing to give your characters a really hard time. All powerful characters that always win and never suffer hardship are not going to become those characters like the ones I mentioned who people live and die by.

 

I've been taught tons about creating characters. Most people feel emotional attachment simply because it relates to real people. Making a character so O.P is epic to some but ridiculous to others, i'm the ''others''. Like how i can relate to Gohan because he's a family oriented person while Goku doesn't appeal to me, even though he's epic and all he's ridiculously O.P (again dragonball z isn't a known RPG but a fighting game lol i need to stop making references to other genres but it makes sense right?)

 

 

 


p.s.- when constructing the story itself, try hard to stay away from old cliches. "The chosen one," "the young girl gifted in magic," and "the old wizened wizard" are so stale in terms of rpgs that most people will instantly shy away from games that go there nowadays. Be ready to tell stories that are not expected.

 

That's the rule i'm going by all through my game! AVOID AS MANY CLICHES AS POSSIBLE MUAHAHAHA smile.png

 

EDIT: thanks for the reply though, i felt this really helped me in terms of story. Other replies were in terms of gameplay which also helped to a certain extent.  

Edited by Silentcupidz
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Designing a story is hard - it might make sense to start with whichever part is easiest for you personally (for me I tend to start with a relationship I want to develop between a pair or triad of characters, plus a sci-fi or fantasy worldbuilding idea, but different writers find different points of entry the easiest).  Once you have something, you can use it as a building block to help you tackle areas of story design that come less easily to you,

 

As for cliches and tropes, it's not that writers should completely avoid them, but instead be aware of which ones you really love, and why they really resonate with you and others; then reinvent them so they keep that core people love but are also a fresh and interesting twist.  Dragons for example - dragons have been done a zillion times, but there are people who love them and there is room to do new and interesting things with them.  Maybe the main character is the dragon, instead of a human.  Maybe the dragons are dragon-like aliens who walk on their hind legs and drive motorcycles.  Maybe the dragons are spaceships in a symbiotic relationship with a humanoid race which lives inside them.  Maybe the humanoid race and the dragon ships are actually the same race but some of them go through extreme physical transformations to become able to perform their careers.  And there are plenty of other fresh things one could do with dragon-like beings.  Creativity happens when you can look at an existing idea, separate the pattern from the details, and remix it so you either put new details in the pattern or change the pattern to show the details in a new way.

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