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Cifra

Help me make the first step

27 posts in this topic

Hi!

 

I'm a long time C++ programmer (hobby) and lately I've been poking C# with a few small projects. I've always had the feeling that all these online MMO medieval games were too "fantastical" and out of line. So I thought my next project could be making one of my own.

 

Here's what I think I want to create:

- A realistic medieval society kind of simulator.

- Isometric perspective, or 2.5D, or 3D 45º i don't really know what you call it. It would look between this:

commandos_beyond_the_call_of_duty_18.jpg

 

and this: 

 

eFlqW35.jpg?1

 

 

I havent decided yet the exact look, but you get what I mean.

- Also, ideally it would be playable by a lot of people at the same time, like Diablo.

 

Suming up, I'm a programmer who knows nothing about 3D or game design but I'm a very fast learner and I'm willing to invest money too (i was thinking to hire an artist if i see it's too time consuming for me for example).

 

What I need to know is, what technology should I use? What software does one use to achieve what I want to achieve? Should I go Unity? Should I build it from scratch using some engine? Which one and why? What should I use to do the art part? What's the general process of developing a game such as mine?

 

I really hope there are skilled enough people here to answer these questions.

 

Thank you very much!

Edited by Cifra
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If you've never made games then change from MMO to some other much (much) smaller single player game type (mmo's are the last kind of games i want to make). The meaning of MMO is enough.
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If you've never made games then change from MMO to some other much (much) smaller single player game type (mmo's are the last kind of games i want to make). The meaning of MMO is enough.

 

I understand your worry but I'd really appreciate if you could address my questions. I may opt to hire more coders besides artists and move the project forward so please respect the original post.

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What I need to know is, what technology should I use? What software does one use to achieve what I want to achieve? Should I go Unity? Should I build it from scratch using some engine? Which one and why? What should I use to do the art part? What's the general process of developing a game such as mine?

 

Based on the vague information you've provided, it seems to me that you're looking to develop some sort of a multiplayer dungeon crawler. I told this to my magic 8ball and it came back with the following list:

  • Either a game development kit, like Unity3D; any 3D game engine under the sun, if you're feeling adventurous; or roll your own if you never want to release a game. Ever.
  • Database software for persistence -- I'm partial to PostgrSQL because it isn't MySQL.
  • 3D modeling and animation software for creating character models and environments. Blender, Maya and 3DMax are popular contenders. Blender are free, other have licensing costs.
  • 2D art software for creating textures and concept art -- Photoshop or GIMP or MSPaint.
  • Networking engine. I've read good things about RakNet.
  • Hardware for developers and/or test environment.

Rough outline of the tradition inception-development-release cycle is as follows:

  1. Write a game design document.
  2. Get funding.
  3. Hookers and blow.
  4. ???
  5. Release.

 

Since it is a beginners forum I was only trying to prevent other beginners like me from jumping in with speculations, a very common thing to happen in such forums, not everything is an attack Mnemotic

 

Your questions are in a form that encourage speculation.

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What I need to know is, what technology should I use? What software does one use to achieve what I want to achieve? Should I go Unity? Should I build it from scratch using some engine? Which one and why? What should I use to do the art part? What's the general process of developing a game such as mine?

 

Based on the vague information you've provided, it seems to me that you're looking to develop some sort of a multiplayer dungeon crawler. I told this to my magic 8ball and it came back with the following list:

  • Either a game development kit, like Unity3D; any 3D game engine under the sun, if you're feeling adventurous; or roll your own if you never want to release a game. Ever.
  • Database software for persistence -- I'm partial to PostgrSQL because it isn't MySQL.
  • 3D modeling and animation software for creating character models and environments. Blender, Maya and 3DMax are popular contenders. Blender are free, other have licensing costs.
  • 2D art software for creating textures and concept art -- Photoshop or GIMP or MSPaint.
  • Networking engine. I've read good things about RakNet.
  • Hardware for developers and/or test environment.

Rough outline of the tradition inception-development-release cycle is as follows:

  1. Write a game design document.
  2. Get funding.
  3. Hookers and blow.
  4. ???
  5. Release.

 

So Unity3D is a good choice after all, good.

I'll look into RakNet.

 

That outline was a good try but wasn't funny at all, you gotta work on your jokes man.

 

 

Since it is a beginners forum I was only trying to prevent other beginners like me from jumping in with speculations, a very common thing to happen in such forums, not everything is an attack Mnemotic

 

Your questions are in a form that encourage speculation.

 
Experts don't speculate ;)
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"I have the feeling you are used to people promising the world and delivering nothing. I'm not in that demographic."

 

The others all do say that as well, though... :-)

 

But I really mean it... tongue.png

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boogyman19946

 

I'm going to read that post right now, it looks interesting, but let me tell you something. If throughout my life I had always listened to the "don't do X, give up, it's too hard/unlikely/impossible" I would have never gotten the best experiences i've had. And the best achivements too.

 

The most interesting things ever done, were always done by people going the hard/impossible path. People swiming up the river while others were just going with the natural (easy) flow.

 

I'll do my best to make it, and I don't say that lightly. I'm not saying you guys are wrong, chances are I won't make it to the end. But even if I don't, I'll be a better version of me.

 

// cifra gets off the stage and the crowd stands up clapping and crying

 

shadowisadog

 

Thank you, that is very useful. Confirms the Unity choice and some others. My plan is almost a copy, except the first point. I'm not making a game to sell, I'm making a game to enjoy, an authentic and original gaming experience. If that sells, so be it.

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I'd say that Unity is a good choice; as good as many others.

It looks like you need some more research. No one but yourself can tell you what you need and want.

Unity3D, Leadwerks 3, Maratis3D, Polycode, any of these are good options; also several not listed here, as these are just the ones that "popped" in my mind right now.

 

The only point that worries me is that you said you are willing to put money on it, but asked nothing about marketing, IP...

The way you wrote made me believe you have solid C++ and C#, so you can code the game.

But it also looks like you know absolutely nothing about production; what probably means you shouldn't put money on anything just yet.

 

Grab a Game Production book or even a website where you can study this. It is important if you are going to create a big project, specially if you intend on being its leader.

 

I'm not saying that you need to study the production process, you need marketing, you need ... I'm just saying that you would benefit a lot from these.

Edited by dejaime
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boogyman19946

 

I'm going to read that post right now, it looks interesting, but let me tell you something. If throughout my life I had always listened to the "don't do X, give up, it's too hard/unlikely/impossible" I would have never gotten the best experiences i've had. And the best achivements too.

 

The most interesting things ever done, were always done by people going the hard/impossible path. People swiming up the river while others were just going with the natural (easy) flow.

 

I'll do my best to make it, and I don't say that lightly. I'm not saying you guys are wrong, chances are I won't make it to the end. But even if I don't, I'll be a better version of me.

 

// cifra gets off the stage and the crowd stands up clapping and crying

 

 

Well, I must applaud you on courage and patience. Just be aware that if you are really serious about making this, make extra sure not to spend your life savings on something the you know has a small chance of being a success. Then again, I guess I don't have to tell you that.

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I'd say that Unity is a good choice; as good as many others.

It looks like you need some more research. No one but yourself can tell you what you need and want.

Unity3D, Leadwerks 3, Maratis3D, Polycode, any of these are good options; also several not listed here, as these are just the ones that "popped" in my mind right now.

 

Unity seems like the biggest one in terms of documentation and community/support. And is the one people never forget to mention.

 

 

The only point that worries me is that you said you are willing to put money on it, but asked nothing about marketing, IP...

 

That's because i'm not that interested in profitability just yet, if ever. Also I know a fair share of marketing, IP, communication etc. But the former reason is the most important.

 

 

But it also looks like you know absolutely nothing about production; what probably means you shouldn't put money on anything just yet.

 

Grab a Game Production book or even a website where you can study this. It is important if you are going to create a big project, specially if you intend on being its leader.

 

I'm not saying that you need to study the production process, you need marketing, you need ... I'm just saying that you would benefit a lot from these.

 

 

I agree, will do.

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Satharis

 

Using your own example, going to the moon in the sixties, the moral of the story is that when they thought it was impossible, they were wrong. Period. Of course they didn't know for sure at the time, but in 1969 they found out everyone who said traveling to the moon was impossible, was completely wrong. The "impossible" word has a very clear definition in the dictionary.

 

I could care less about people taking me seriously or not, I came here for information, and in the end I have found more or less what I needed. As the title of the thread states, this is just to make the first step which in my native language is something like "info gathering". And that's what I'm doing. I have lots of study ahead of me and then I'll put my hands to work, when the time comes, I'll probably be coming here with more concrete questions.

 

By the way, I learnt your language in a few months by myself watching hollywood movies in original version and taking notes while everyone said it was impossible. They were wrong.

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Unity seems like the biggest one in terms of documentation and community/support. And is the one people never forget to mention.

Yep, but that is because the company behind Unity has spent a lot of money running PR campaigns targeted towards the communities of forums like these. Hobby developers mindlessly singing praises of the Unity product does start to get on my nerves ;)

 

I agree with JustColorado about avoiding Unity for large projects (which the OP's sounds to be). For example, its continuous integration and test system (The Editor doesnt even return !0 on error!) is almost non-existent and needs to be hacked into things like Bamboo/Jenkins. This is effectively a show stopper for any sizable project. Though it does explain why there are pretty much no AAA titles developed using it.

 

Plus with any generated scenes (like in many RTS/Simulator type games), the Unity editor really does lose any usefullness it did have.

Edited by Karsten_
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no AAA titles developed using it.

 

That pretty much sums it up for Unity.  

 

One other recommendation on an Engine that works great for ISO 3d games.  SFML

I have done projects in this one also and I loved working with it.  Also a great community there

and it is Free.  I haven't tried it for iOS or Droid yet.  So I can't vouch for that.  But for PC it

worked fantastic.

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All people talking about Unreal, great points. I never heard of it but I will look into it and make a decision. Unity really seemed easy to learn and develop with but what you are saying makes a lot of sense.

 

To Unity fanboys, is it really that sloppy/inefficient you think?

 

PS: I was thinking making the game a browser game like deadfrontier, Unity seems to make it easy, i don't know about Unreal.

Edited by Cifra
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While I agree with the advice that was given about Unreal Engine, I don't think they knew you were developing a browser game. Most people saying they want to make an MMO mean they want to make an MMO that will finally dethrone World of Warcraft. Had you posted screenshots of Dead Frontier instead of Diablo, people probably would have reacted very differently and had far more advice and far less ridicule.

 

Dead Frontier uses Unity, so obviously Unity will work if that is your goal. You can look up a game's Wikipedia entry, and you'll often see what engine they use.

 

Please don't try to start a flame war by telling Unity fanboys that anyone said it is very sloppy and inefficient. Unity is just fine for most uses, and I think even fanboys will admit you're unlikely to see the next Call of Duty release being powered by Unity.

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