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kiteflyingmonkey

To aspiring indie devs

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Really like the whole article to be fair!

 

I've never given much thought to the types of articles he mentions - in other walks of life they'd tell you 'go to school and get awesome grades so you can be a CEO in 10 years time!'. Yeah, tell that to the likes of Richard Branson who dropped out of school with virtually no qualifications - and dyslexia to fight alongside it. 

 

Sadly many aspiring devs will read and listen to articles like that and although from time to time you might find legit advice, most of it is total trash that'll do more harm than good. 

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Really like the whole article to be fair!
 
I've never given much thought to the types of articles he mentions - in other walks of life they'd tell you 'go to school and get awesome grades so you can be a CEO in 10 years time!'. Yeah, tell that to the likes of Richard Branson who dropped out of school with virtually no qualifications - and dyslexia to fight alongside it. 
 
Sadly many aspiring devs will read and listen to articles like that and although from time to time you might find legit advice, most of it is total trash that'll do more harm than good.

Yeah.
@kiteflyingmonkey: Thanks for posting that

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"10 tips for aspiring indies!"

"15 hard truths about being an indie dev!"

"8 things they don't tell you in video game school!"

These titles all sound like the authors are either just trying to sell me a book or something, or they have absolutely no idea about game development is really like. I wouldn't call them "people with experience".

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Great article! I wish I knew him nineteen years ago when I first started and he had known all that at the time. I've read articles like that and sadly the guys at Allegro.cc (where I spent eleven years trying to learn) are like that. I had about five rocky years of experience in C++ when I joined A.cc and told them that my ultimate goal was to make a Chrono Trigger fan game and to make a RPG that combined elements of three of my favorite games. Immediately I was was told by members that it was impossible to do and that I should forget about those ideas all together. The A.cc admin even has the attitude of you can program or you can't and if you can't then you can't learn. He even gave me a lecture about how those who fail repeatedly ultimately get depressed and give up programming and how he had seen it time and time again. I listened because they all had made games.

 

Moosader's community was half way like this and half way not. They would tell you that you could do xyz game, but then when you asked questions you were either left with no response or they would talk down to you because you didn't ask the right question. I listened because they made games.

 

Because of people and articles like that telling me what I could and couldn't do for eleven years, I have no confidence in my abilities. I went from big dreams of being a game programmer as a career and even going to college, to now not caring if I ever become a game programmer because of the ideals that were placed in my head due to said articles and bad communities. Now I can help beginners and do the exercises in programming books like nothing, but when I try to make my own ideas I just seize up and can't break things down anymore. Those kind of sites, communities, and lists have made it so I don't like working in teams anymore, I don't like showing my code due to self-esteem and personal perception that it always sucks. 

 

My point, in case I lost some of you because I do have a knack for rambling and making my point less evident, is that the article is great advice for all those looking to becoming an indie game developer and that I am living proof that his points are valid and to not listen to all those involved in it because there are some that will mislead you.

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What I think the problem could be (do note, this is pure speculation from my part) is that those lists were the truth at some point in time.

 

I see it like this, probably the people that make those lists were the ones that had to dig through piles of rubish, had to overcome 9 failed games and didn't have the information/platforms or whatever is needed that we have available to us now.

 

It has become significantly easier to make games with lesser effort over the years, large communities have risen from seemingly nowhere, the indie scene has been growing as well and right now, it's just a matter of downloading Unity3D, grab some nice looking assets from one of the many sites providing them, skim through some tutorials or copy paste some code and you can already have a decent game running without that much effort.

 

I also think many of those posts are meant for people that think "I'll just make my idea and become a millionair, just like notch did" and get bitter when their first game magically doesn't become the next minecraft. They also tend to forget that, taking notch and minecraft as another example, wasn't his first try.

 

I get where he's coming from and where he's going with this, though I do not fully agree with every point. It's something that is also to be seen from the eye of the beholder and a matter of how you interpret it and like I said, most of those points are probably stated by people that had to go through these points that are not fully valid anymore.

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What I think the problem could be (do note, this is pure speculation from my part) is that those lists were the truth at some point in time.

I see it like this, probably the people that make those lists were the ones that had to dig through piles of rubish, had to overcome 9 failed games and didn't have the information/platforms or whatever is needed that we have available to us now.

It has become significantly easier to make games with lesser effort over the years, large communities have risen from seemingly nowhere, the indie scene has been growing as well and right now, it's just a matter of downloading Unity3D, grab some nice looking assets from one of the many sites providing them, skim through some tutorials or copy paste some code and you can already have a decent game running without that much effort.

I also think many of those posts are meant for people that think "I'll just make my idea and become a millionair, just like notch did" and get bitter when their first game magically doesn't become the next minecraft. They also tend to forget that, taking notch and minecraft as another example, wasn't his first try.

I get where he's coming from and where he's going with this, though I do not fully agree with every point. It's something that is also to be seen from the eye of the beholder and a matter of how you interpret it and like I said, most of those points are probably stated by people that had to go through these points that are not fully valid anymore.


Sure, the failed game part may be wrong but the part about indie devs should not make big games like the pros and forum members feeling like you shouldn't doing that because I was told not to or because I couldn't is right

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Great article! I wish I knew him nineteen years ago when I first started and he had known all that at the time. I've read articles like that and sadly the guys at Allegro.cc (where I spent eleven years trying to learn) are like that. I had about five rocky years of experience in C++ when I joined A.cc and told them that my ultimate goal was to make a Chrono Trigger fan game and to make a RPG that combined elements of three of my favorite games. Immediately I was was told by members that it was impossible to do and that I should forget about those ideas all together. The A.cc admin even has the attitude of you can program or you can't and if you can't then you can't learn. He even gave me a lecture about how those who fail repeatedly ultimately get depressed and give up programming and how he had seen it time and time again. I listened because they all had made games.

 

Moosader's community was half way like this and half way not. They would tell you that you could do xyz game, but then when you asked questions you were either left with no response or they would talk down to you because you didn't ask the right question. I listened because they made games.

 

Because of people and articles like that telling me what I could and couldn't do for eleven years, I have no confidence in my abilities. I went from big dreams of being a game programmer as a career and even going to college, to now not caring if I ever become a game programmer because of the ideals that were placed in my head due to said articles and bad communities. Now I can help beginners and do the exercises in programming books like nothing, but when I try to make my own ideas I just seize up and can't break things down anymore. Those kind of sites, communities, and lists have made it so I don't like working in teams anymore, I don't like showing my code due to self-esteem and personal perception that it always sucks. 

 

My point, in case I lost some of you because I do have a knack for rambling and making my point less evident, is that the article is great advice for all those looking to becoming an indie game developer and that I am living proof that his points are valid and to not listen to all those involved in it because there are some that will mislead you.

 

That's sad to hear. The only person you have to prove your abilities are you! There's a lot of this going around the Unity forums, "You can't do it".. "Keep it simple", "never strive to be the best!!".. Screw that smile.png, I swear down I spend half my time now going out of my way just to prove people wrong (Which I need to stop and focus).. I built half a game engine in two weeks just out of principle, I'm half way through a massive RPG because they said I couldn't do it. 

 

I started in games development 5 years ago, I've been coding for 12 years in API development, so I suppose I'm inexperienced but I don't let that stop me. Don't let your own emotions cripple you, everyone can do it! You just have to spend your time A) learning the most effective method B) Implementing it. 

 

Some people get hung up on re-inventing the wheel, which is fine until it becomes a financial burden. I'm a little OCD, games are never finished.. Learning to reign it in and accept it's as finished as it's going to be. Just get something out there, put in the time and just get it out there.. Even if it get's slammed to the wall, you pick yourself up and do it better the next time from the feedback and experience you've gathered.

 

Also don't try and learn anything and everything, there is simply too much.. Don't be excessively proud and use other libraries, languages (whatever it takes) to help you get to where you need, small teams  / one man bands can't afford to be proud.. Oh and save at least some money for marketing, you have a great product which means sweet nothing if only you and your partner know about it.

 

End of the day, do what makes YOU happy not what others say and the dev in Unity selling his game might not be a game creation Guru or even know anything about c++.. But at least they are making something out of it!

Edited by ShadowKGames

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