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Supercytro

Deciphering help

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Many RPG''s (and other games) use the scenario of being imprisoned and meeting a comrade or combat buddy... but wouldn''t it be interesting if that person spoke a different language. In order to escape, communication would be necessary. Both parties would try to communicate verbally at first, perhaps simplifying their speech. The player would thus have to decipher the speech to gain clues. Increasingly realistic graphics would help via greater expression via body language. Follow, fear, stop, these are words easily deciphered. Puzzles would require communication i.e. you go thru this hole and open the door for me. As a further clue perhaps, books in a foreign language would provide reference clues tho implementing this would perhaps require a suspension of belief for better gameplay. However, how could communication of this form be expressed both in a input and output capacity? Any ideas, anyone? How could gesturing take place? Also, it might be interesting if the game would use "real-life languages", perhaps less well-known ones such as esperanto. Games have an amazing ability to pass on info. Potential edutainment (hate that term) hook for parens?

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quote:
Original post by Supercytro
In order to escape, communication would be necessary. Both parties would try to communicate verbally at first, perhaps simplifying their speech. The player would thus have to decipher the speech to gain clues. Increasingly realistic graphics would help via greater expression via body language.


Hmm... Although your comrade could use body language, I think it would be very difficult to give you an expressive enough body to talk to him in that way, unless your game was specifically a learn to speak via body language 'em up .
quote:

Follow, fear, stop, these are words easily deciphered.

Puzzles would require communication i.e. you go thru this hole and open the door for me.


Your comrade could demonstrate what he wanted you to do, and feasibly you could demonstrate what you wanted him to do: trying to open the door or go through the hole and failing.

I think that to make it realistic, you'd need very clever AI.
quote:

As a further clue perhaps, books in a foreign language would provide reference clues tho implementing this would perhaps require a suspension of belief for better gameplay.


Not if it makes sense for the books to be wherever they were found. If you were in a foreign country, for example, it might make sense for you to have a phrase book with you. That phrase book could help you to make friends with your comrade, but probably wouldn't have versions of 'please crawl through this hole, knock out the guard and open the door'.
quote:

However, how could communication of this form be expressed both in a input and output capacity? Any ideas, anyone? How could gesturing take place?


Most animals learn by imitation. Actually doing, or trying to do, the thing you're trying to get across is going to be clearer than a vague gesture. If you want your 1 tonne stone golem cellmate to knock the door down, don't get your character to gesture at the door, try to knock the door down.
quote:

Also, it might be interesting if the game would use "real-life languages", perhaps less well-known ones such as Esperanto. Games have an amazing ability to pass on info. Potential edutainment (hate that term) hook for parents?


I imagine most parents would rather you were teaching their children French or Spanish than Esperanto.

Don't use widely known languages, certainly: people (like me) who don't know Spanish might be offended that the game expects me to know Spanish. If the language is unknown, or dead, then the player will know that he's not expected to know how to speak it right away.

'Nuff said. I'll enjoy watching you live, demon.

Edited by - Mayrel on October 30, 2001 1:26:53 PM

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Well AP, I guess the only Moron here is you :p

As for the idea: I like it! It might be difficult to implement, but it''s a way to move the focus from killing to adventuring...

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quote:
Don't use widely known languages, certainly: people (like me) who don't know Spanish might be offended that the game expects me to know Spanish. If the language is unknown, or dead, then the player will know that he's not expected to know how to speak it right away


The whole point is that you aren't supposed to understand the other person via natural language communication. Hence, there is necessary exploration of communication via other means.

quote:
Most animals learn by imitation. Actually doing, or trying to do, the thing you're trying to get across is going to be clearer than a vague gesture. If you want your 1 tonne stone golem cellmate to knock the door down, don't get your character to gesture at the door, try to knock the door down.


That's quite a good point. To communicate a task you could attempt it and try to signal, perhaps by calling or gesturing and vice versa.

quote:
Not if it makes sense for the books to be wherever they were found. If you were in a foreign country, for example, it might make sense for you to have a phrase book with you. That phrase book could help you to make friends with your comrade, but probably wouldn't have versions of 'please crawl through this hole, knock out the guard and open the door'.


Yep, it would break the believabilty too much. A bit of a hangover idea from past gaming experience I think

quote:
Hmm... Although your comrade could use body language, I think it would be very difficult to give you an expressive enough body to talk to him in that way, unless your game was specifically a learn to speak via body language 'em up .


I agree, the actual interface would be a major problem... any ideas anyone. Interesting term "body language 'em up" tho

quote:
I think that to make it realistic, you'd need very clever AI.
I'm not entirely convinced. It could be handled via complex scripting. Tho, implementing this with use of NN or complex AI would be damn impressive.


quote:
It might be difficult to implement, but it's a way to move the focus from killing to adventuring...


Implementation would be a major prob. It would definitely be more than a hobby project. However, quite a few professional who work in the games industry visit these boards. If just a few of our ideas reaches them...

[EDIT: Quote tags!?!]
--
Supercytro

Edited by - supercytro on October 31, 2001 5:16:00 AM

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I think it is a cool idea, supercytro.
I also think you are right about how hard it would be.
If you were going to make gestures, I would suggest joystick/s of some description, as they don''t have the limitation of arrow keys, etc.
I also suggest that you don''t get upset if people using the site don''t want to help. They might not want to venture into that sort of unknown territory. I certainly wouldn''t be game to, and I am brave enough to try anything(just about)!


"Of all the things I''ve lost, I miss my mind the most."
Goober

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