human intelligence

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82 comments, last by Gianni Guarino 10 years, 2 months ago
Talking brain and computer size, consider: The important components of a computer are very small and most of a computer's space is taken up by the wires that connect each major component, cooling fans and empty space, and power management hardware (batteries, PSUs, capacitors, etc). Cell phones are obviously extremely small, yet have fairly powerful processors.

Recent laptop-class CPU dies are roughly 2-3 square centimeters and 1-2 mm thick, where most of the volume is structure not directly involved in processing. The packaging outside of the silicon is largely just making sure that heat dissipation and socket contacts are robust. RAM is a bit larger. Nonvolatile storage is often shockingly small (MicroSD as an example).

Now, without any considerations of actually powering it up or connecting the components in a meaningful way, pack a human skull full of nothing but the CPU, RAM, and MicroSD. You'd be able to pack tens of thousands of various combinations of them within an adult human skull. It's not that shocking that human brains would be more powerful than a few dozen square centimeters of silicon.

Biological brains grow as a single unit. They don't need to waste space with things like making the contacts in PCI slots far enough apart to allow for sloppy alignment. Everything can be as small as functionally possible. Everything is arranged in 3D, so you don't have to make your circuits planar, allowing you much more freedom in where you place connected pieces.

How big would cell phone hardware be without the antenna, battery, or screen?
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But if you think that way, you must add the size of the liver and the heart (as much as pretty much every other organ) to the size of a brain, too. A brain doesn't work without a complete human to support it. Remove one organ, and unless it's a paired organ the whole human including the brain encounters a permanent failure condition.

On the other hand, the skull is half-empty (filled with fluid) and a considerable part of neural tissue is collagen which does "nothing" for its compute power -- it only guarantees that the tissue resists reasonable force. Insofar, the comparison with filling the whole skull with silicon isn't 100% fair either.

Also, much like a brain, a processor simply won't work without the supportive hardware such as a power supply (though it is much more tolerant to being switched off and on).

The debate is extremely flawed if you fail to accept that biology is just nanotechnology, and that humans are therefore machinery...

Humans are machines.

Humans are intelligent and self aware.

Therefore machines can be intelligent and self aware.

The only way for this to not be true, is to artificially restrict your definition of machinery, or to choose to believe that humans are made of magic or whatever...

@OP though -- An i7 and GB's of RAM -- no. That is a ridiculously simple (and inefficient, and fragile) machine when compared to a human.

On the topic though, google just spent half a billion dollars acquiring a company who's developed a self-learning AI that can learn to play (and win) at different Atari games just from the RGB pixel inputs -- that's fully automated feature recognition, classification, planning, etc... That's a pretty good achievement thus far!

So tired of google trying to conquer the world. smh. haha

They call me the Tutorial Doctor.

Just thought I'd swing through this thread again... I see the derpage continues. Don't make me moderate your ass.

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"Reducing the world to mathematical equations!"

When Louie said that we can hold more data than computers, I'd agree. The amount of sensory data that even an uneducated person takes in just by design is far more than computers will be able to take in. And we still have to process this data constantly.

To compare computer intelligence to human intelligence and to suggest a computer could be more intelligent is very dismissive of just how complex the human brain is.

We can't even make an algorithm that makes a robot as autonomous as a human. Far from doing it too.

Programs can't fix themselves, as we CAN.

They can't upgrade themselves, as we can. We can choose to learn or not to learn, and choose how to learn.

Grab the best doctors, most brilliant scientists, most skilled engineers, put them together to build a robot and you still won't get a "machine" that could ever be more brilliant than the creators themselves.

That company google bought has done something neat, but is so far from human intelligence.

They call me the Tutorial Doctor.


When Louie said that we can hold more data than computers, I'd agree. The amount of sensory data that even an uneducated person takes in just by design is far more than computers will be able to take in. And we still have to process this data constantly.

I repeat the challenge: Design a test of memory prowess where you think you can do better than a laptop.


I repeat the challenge: Design a test of memory prowess where you think you can do better than a laptop.
Ow darn you, now you are compelling me to prove something that's so obviously wrong on all accounts biggrin.png

But the way this challenge is worded, it actually works out:

I can remember events from my childhood. That's 40 years. My grandparents can remember things from theirs, that's 85 years.

A laptop battery doesn't live much longer than 3-4 years, nor does a laptop battery. Make that 10 years if you are very lucky. Few computers have an uptime of more than a few months (a few servers have 5-10 years), and few computers that are older than 20-30 years are still in service. No computer older than 85 years is in service.

---> beaten the machine on long-term memory prowess

Now of course one could argue "but M-Disc lasts 1000 years". Alas, that's the manufacturer's advertising gag, we will know in 1000 years (or rather, we will not). What we do know is that DVDs definitively don't last 1000 years, though.

I repeat the challenge: Design a test of memory prowess where you think you can do better than a laptop.

Ow darn you, now you are compelling me to prove something that's so obviously wrong on all accounts biggrin.png

I can remember events from my childhood. That's 40 years. My grandparents can remember things from theirs, that's 85 years.


Both of you are oversimplifying the situation. If you only pick a *single* requirement, either human or computer can beat the other at anything! The reality though is that both humans and computers have to fulfill a LOT of requirements at the same time. Human requirements are dictated by nature. Computer requirements are dictated by Humans.

Just like a computer loses its data due to software bugs, media decay or hardware failures, Humans forget things naturally all the time: Do you remember everything you learned from every lesson in school? How long can you remember things that you never use?


I repeat the challenge: Design a test of memory prowess where you think you can do better than a laptop.
Ow darn you, now you are compelling me to prove something that's so obviously wrong on all accounts biggrin.png

But the way this challenge is worded, it actually works out:

I can remember events from my childhood. That's 40 years. My grandparents can remember things from theirs, that's 85 years.

A laptop battery doesn't live much longer than 3-4 years, nor does a laptop battery. Make that 10 years if you are very lucky. Few computers have an uptime of more than a few months (a few servers have 5-10 years), and few computers that are older than 20-30 years are still in service. No computer older than 85 years is in service.

---> beaten the machine on long-term memory prowess

Now of course one could argue "but M-Disc lasts 1000 years". Alas, that's the manufacturer's advertising gag, we will know in 1000 years (or rather, we will not). What we do know is that DVDs definitively don't last 1000 years, though.

Can you? That's impressive! Tell me, what was the exact shade of color exactly 1/8th from the top of your eyesight radius? What were the exact dimensions of the blades of grass around you?

What we "remember" as vivid isn't as vivid as you actually think.

Can you pick out 4 thousand events that have happened in your life in detail?

You remember listening to music? Neat, what were you doing with your right foot's big toe at the start of the guitar solo?

Just think about it this way. Try to think of about an hour of vivid memories from every year you've been born. Do you think a computer could store double what you can recall?

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