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Tutorial Doctor

Blender for making Games?


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I dont mind blender, i just hate the bad practices it generates for people who start with it.

 

I'm curious what you mean?  I didn't start with it ( 3ds (not max... )) personally, but dont really see what bad habits it would form?  

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Most people in blender leave seams, verts are almost never welded, and their edgeloops are horrid. This is because the tools make it seem like the model is complete and ready for export when in reality it can cause some serious issues when used in real game development. I guess the complaint is the program is too easy thus people dont learn the proper methods for creating assets for game development.

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Posted Yesterday, 03:33 PM

Most people in blender leave seams, verts are almost never welded, and their edgeloops are horrid. This is because the tools make it seem like the model is complete and ready for export when in reality it can cause some serious issues when used in real game development. I guess the complaint is the program is too easy thus people dont learn the proper methods for creating assets for game development.
 

You need to consider, that most people using blender do it , because of not having (legal) access or enough money to use max/maya. Most people who use max/maya are professional or atleast students, who study art and have better access to this tools. The effect, that their art has better quality is just the result of an higher time investment and not the result of  the tool.

 

The quality of my code I write does not differ if written with VS2012 or notepad, but I'm much faster with VS2012. The quality differs only, because I study it and dedicated 20 years to code more or less each day, so , please don't blame the tool.

 

 

While your point is great in theory it cant be anything further from the truth. The tool is SO simple they are not forced to learn those things that are crucial to GOOD model design. You ever see somebody put FRONTPAGE on their resume for being a "website professional"? You sure as hell don't now but you sure did back then. Everybody who had access to a computer could make cool clipart webpages but it doesn't mean they knew anything about making a real website. The same could be said for Photoshop and the people who use filters to make "cool flame art" but have no idea what the filter is actually doing and most of their work looks generic and cant be used for anything other than a silly signature on a forum page.

 

This actually goes deeper than just blender if you really wanted to get into it. It is the whole concept that the further we advance in technology the more we loose in basic knowledge and skill. I wont bore you with the details here and we can discuss in private or in another thread if you wished... but the point is this is MY opinion of the program.

 


Almost every 3d professional and artist that uses blender knows how to make a proper edge loop and how to not leave seams. There are only two kinds of professional the one who is and the one who isn't. Independent of the tool, knowledge makes the artist. Any program can be excellent it just depends on who is using it.

 

You make a solid point here. Problem with this is that blender is free and easy to use so the COMMON non-professional gets their hands on this program and creates the issue stated above. The OP's question was should it be used for gamedev, and while I believe the tool can be used to do so I hate it as a standard because the common person ( most indie people ) don't know how to create proper models or uv maps.

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You make a solid point here. Problem with this is that blender is free and easy to use so the COMMON non-professional gets their hands on this program and creates the issue stated above. The OP's question was should it be used for gamedev, and while I believe the tool can be used to do so I hate it as a standard because the common person ( most indie people ) don't know how to create proper models or uv maps.

+1

I agree, nice reply!

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One thing I know about a true artist, it doesn't matter what tool is used, as long as the tool is usable they can make a masterpiece with it. My brother always says, "I hate artists man, they are good at everything."

What he is saying is that everywhere there is art, there is also good art. At one point I was so broke that I only had clay to paint with. I painted a portrait with it.

The whole "quick filters" thing is true though. I see so many photoshop tutorials that are just "this filter, that filter, done." But the principles of art are lost along with it.

If a person has the principles down, I am sure they can do good modeling and Uv unwrapping and such in Blender or Maya or Max or some random abandoned software.

Now, the indie devs who started as a hobby and were forced to use Blender to make games, and perhaps never learned proper techniques for making game models, might be the ones who don't know proper techniques, but this would apply to those who use Max or Maya without proper techiniques also.

Edited by Tutorial Doctor

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You make a solid point here. Problem with this is that blender is free and easy to use so the COMMON non-professional gets their hands on this program and creates the issue stated above. The OP's question was should it be used for gamedev, and while I believe the tool can be used to do so I hate it as a standard because the common person ( most indie people ) don't know how to create proper models or uv maps.

Maybe a good article topic for someone suitably qualified and with the time to write it: common beginner mistakes with Blender.

If the software were more complicated or less readily available then perhaps these people wouldn't be making the mistakes, but that ship has long since sailed; the option now is to try to better educate people so that these mistakes are less common.

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I dont mind blender, i just hate the bad practices it generates for people who start with it.

 

This was the FIRST post I made, not sure how I ever said it was a "Bad tool to not be used for gamedev".

 


I guess the complaint is the program is too easy thus people dont learn the proper methods for creating assets for game development.

 

Again, never said it wasn't a good tool, simply said that it allows for people to skip over the finer points creating issues later on down the road.

 


Your personal option, that a tool is useful or not, is ok. But to tell people, that a certain tool results in bad artists, is just BS.

 

This is 100% opinion. I already said that I do not mind the tool or the use of it; rather I despise the fact that the common person who uses it never needs to take the time to learn the proper methods for good, smooth, art production. I NEVER SAID you couldn't make good art, or that the quality of the art was bad. I said that the program allowed for people to skip past the finer details that allow for the work to be used within game development.

 


Come on, don't blame the tool for being popular and used by hobby/indie artists a lot. I use blender and my art is sub-decent, so, if I get maya my art will suddenly get a professional touch ? blink.png

 

If you actually took the time to learn maya and make models with it, yes your work would become more professional.

 


This really sounds like a personal bad experience taken as a reason for a common rule....

 

Bad experience(s) is what dictates thought and opinion to begin with. I am sorry you don't like my opinion, but the thread is about sharing your thoughts and that is exactly what I have done. From the sounds of it you seem offended by my comments. Perhaps you feel that I think less of those people who use Blender ( which I dont ) and that is why you are acting this way. All I am saying is that my default reaction to a person who uses blender is skeptical at best!

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You make a solid point here. Problem with this is that blender is free and easy to use so the COMMON non-professional gets their hands on this program and creates the issue stated above. The OP's question was should it be used for gamedev, and while I believe the tool can be used to do so I hate it as a standard because the common person ( most indie people ) don't know how to create proper models or uv maps.

Maybe a good article topic for someone suitably qualified and with the time to write it: common beginner mistakes with Blender.

If the software were more complicated or less readily available then perhaps these people wouldn't be making the mistakes, but that ship has long since sailed; the option now is to try to better educate people so that these mistakes are less common.

 

 

This again smacks untrue to me, as every single beginner mistake I could see making in Blender is applicable in Maya or Max as well.   The biggest mistake with modelling is probably the lack of clean edge loops and use of nGons.  All three programs allow that.  As for UVmap, hell, Blender probably is the best tool in that regard.

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This again smacks untrue to me, as every single beginner mistake I could see making in Blender is applicable in Maya or Max as well. The biggest mistake with modelling is probably the lack of clean edge loops and use of nGons. All three programs allow that. As for UVmap, hell, Blender probably is the best tool in that regard.

 

While true, most people who pick up maya dont just run in and make stuff. Those who do find that they will have a hard time obtaining anything they really desire and that only through some form of tutorial will they gain any real knowledge of how maya works. It is through these tutorials that they learn about these things ( not always but often since most people giving tutorials speak of it ).

 

With blender my 10 year old cousin came in and made something pretty decent for his first time ever using the program and never had to read any documentation. When he sent me the files to look over I noticed most of the common mistakes made by people who have no training and wondered how he was able to make such a model but with all these simple mistakes. I asked him what tool he used and then did some research. Installed it and found out that 100% indeed you could create some pretty good stuff with a tool that required little to no training to operate. I was impressed and concerned at the same time.

 

If your goal is to make art to make art than tools such as blender are amazing. I repeat, I DO NOT have an issue with blender specfically just the behavior that begates the simplicity of the program. This is no faut of the program itself but rather an over simplification of things so that EVERYBODY can use these tools. This is my mindset and there is possibly very little that would change that viewpoint. I agree 100% that the tool can be used for some great things.

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This again smacks untrue to me, as every single beginner mistake I could see making in Blender is applicable in Maya or Max as well.   The biggest mistake with modelling is probably the lack of clean edge loops and use of nGons.  All three programs allow that.  As for UVmap, hell, Blender probably is the best tool in that regard.

Even thou this is true, Blender is new to the nGon topology, Ive been using it for years, and only on it's 2.5+ version it was made possible.

 

There are many games made using blender one exemple is ColorCube it was the first blender game made comercial! Só answering the forums question, YES Blender is awesome for game development!

Here are some other examples:

ColorCube

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQSAVzMzUgo[/VIDEO]

 

Elpis the game (My game WIP)

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-8JAR1zbIM[/VIDEO]

 

Yo Frankie! (Blender Foundation)

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7RRaEvWqJc[/VIDEO]

 

Krum (WIP)

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXTk7sQ-W1E[/VIDEO]

 

Dead Cyborg (this is on steams green light)

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_2wCGEV3aI[/VIDEO]

 

Lucy and the Time Machine (wins blender 2010 game contest)

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf8YbCdSh8M[/VIDEO]

 

And the list goes on...

These are just to name a few!

Edited by nweissberg

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This again smacks untrue to me, as every single beginner mistake I could see making in Blender is applicable in Maya or Max as well. The biggest mistake with modelling is probably the lack of clean edge loops and use of nGons. All three programs allow that. As for UVmap, hell, Blender probably is the best tool in that regard.

 

While true, most people who pick up maya dont just run in and make stuff. Those who do find that they will have a hard time obtaining anything they really desire and that only through some form of tutorial will they gain any real knowledge of how maya works. It is through these tutorials that they learn about these things ( not always but often since most people giving tutorials speak of it ).

 

With blender my 10 year old cousin came in and made something pretty decent for his first time ever using the program and never had to read any documentation. When he sent me the files to look over I noticed most of the common mistakes made by people who have no training and wondered how he was able to make such a model but with all these simple mistakes. I asked him what tool he used and then did some research. Installed it and found out that 100% indeed you could create some pretty good stuff with a tool that required little to no training to operate. I was impressed and concerned at the same time.

 

If your goal is to make art to make art than tools such as blender are amazing. I repeat, I DO NOT have an issue with blender specfically just the behavior that begates the simplicity of the program. This is no faut of the program itself but rather an over simplification of things so that EVERYBODY can use these tools. This is my mindset and there is possibly very little that would change that viewpoint. I agree 100% that the tool can be used for some great things.

 

 

 

I am a bit confused by your argument.  I dont really get what Blender does to make the tool accessible that Max and Maya dont.  Quite literally the only difference I can think, and the crux of what you seem to be talking about, is simply the fact that Blender is free and thus anyone can try it.  Since you have a larger pool of uneducated users, you get a larger pool of uneducated results.

 

 

This seems like a ...  rather poor reason to judge a program.  Or am I misunderstanding you where?

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Blender is getting ready to win me fully over with this 2.7 update. It is so fast and snappy. I also like the direction they are going. Right now they are working on the UI and soon they will be working on the game engine (overhaul I hope). If they do well with that, I might even use Blender for game making, as you have all of your particle systems and everything right there. And we all know how extensible Blender is. 

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Blender is perfectly fine for any hobbyist who wants to use the game engine of Blender. A few Indy pros have published games made from Blender.

 

The tools of Blender for creating art assets of your game (based on another game engine, SDK, or IDE), are good.

 

The GUI still needs work in having better descriptive labels and it has some features which are too challenging to locate..

 

 

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Blender is perfectly fine for any hobbyist who wants to use the game engine of Blender. A few Indy pros have published games made from Blender.

 

The tools of Blender for creating art assets of your game (based on another game engine, SDK, or IDE), are good.

 

The GUI still needs work in having better descriptive labels and it has some features which are too challenging to locate..

 

Indie. 

 

Indy is a race series.  :)

 

Sorry, newest their/there/they're pet peeve.

 

 

As to the GUI comment, the latest changes in the UX have made a big difference, at least showing they are going in the right direction.  They need to do a re-org of the icons as well ( for Scene,Properties, Texture, World, etc ).  I actually would like to move away from Icons completely, I like vertical tabs with actual words personally.  This does present some huge internationalization headaches though.

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Serapth,

 

That's what I get for typing at 1,000 miles per hour. I do miss some things.

 

On general capability, Blender is world class.  I liked you comments on the GUI. (your comments: their I go agin - LOL)

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I haven't done any serious work in Blender since 2.49b ("I've been busy" and other assorted excuses), but I just installed 2.70a after reading this topic, as you've all reminded me how much I miss this kind of thing (context info: got degree in architecture, no jobs, became software engineer instead).

 

My initial assessment of the interface changes are "well ****, now I have to learn it again from scratch" and "it's hard to read," the latter being the only remotely serious one. Not a big fan of black on grey, and the various section headers just don't stand out enough. Font size is a little too small on my 2560x1440 monitor as well. Upon closer inspection, this all appears to be highly customizable, but I still think they could use a better default theme.

 

That said, my favorite feature in Blender remains unchanged: it isn't part of the Autodesk pseudo-monopoly, and thus I don't have to sell my car (or my soul) for a copy.

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