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Glass_Knife

What is the best 3D game to make first?

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Glass_Knife    8636

I've read lots of articles about 2D games where they suggest a path for development.  

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20051104034215/http://www.lupinegames.com/articles/path_to_dev.html

 

There are many different opinions, but I think starting with Tetris is a great way to go.  But I have been unable to find a comparable 3D game for starting. 

 

So I ask you Gamedev, what do you think is the best clone/genre/style for your first complete 3D game, and why?

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Durakken    692

Resident Evil / Mario 64 / Star Fox 64

 

The best place to start is the beginning as they say and those are the games we as an art started educating ourselves how to handle 3D.

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Glass_Knife    8636

Resident Evil / Mario 64 / Star Fox 64

 

The best place to start is the beginning as they say and those are the games we as an art started educating ourselves how to handle 3D.

 

I was thinking about this, and I seem to remember that everyone released a driving game to get a handle on the 3D graphics.  That's just Star Fox on the ground.  Hmmm...

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Glass_Knife    8636

My first 3D game has been (of course) an RPG. http://i.imgur.com/OzhAThQ.jpg.

The thing with all of these pathways and timescales and suggested learning curves is that they never take into account an individual's personal interests. For example, if I had been required in the beginning to start out with Pong or Tetris, or to make a 3D racer as my first step in 3D, I would have just walked away from game development in general because those kinds of games simply are not in my area of interest at all. My focus has always been RPGs, and anything that deviates from that has been a side project at best. My advice is to follow your interests, and learn what it takes to make the 3D games that you want to make, not the games that supposed experts recommend you make.

 

I wasn't really concerned with just me, but was wondering more for all beginning game programmers.  Obviously, there are some types of games that will appeal to the individual more than others, but I was more interested in a game choice that provides the most opportunity for learning without being too difficult for a beginner.  We all know how easy it is to bite off too much when just starting out.

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Nathan2222_old    395

My first 3D game has been (of course) an RPG. http://i.imgur.com/OzhAThQ.jpg.The thing with all of these pathways and timescales and suggested learning curves is that they never take into account an individual's personal interests. For example, if I had been required in the beginning to start out with Pong or Tetris, or to make a 3D racer as my first step in 3D, I would have just walked away from game development in general because those kinds of games simply are not in my area of interest at all. My focus has always been RPGs, and anything that deviates from that has been a side project at best. My advice is to follow your interests, and learn what it takes to make the 3D games that you want to make, not the games that supposed experts recommend you make.


Great post :)

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frob    44908

frob, if I could vote you up more, I'd give that last post a +10.

 

Thanks, but I don't think it really deserves it. 

 

It is advice you see everywhere if you look for it.  It ranges from the KISS acronym to the entire Unix philosophy. Do the easiest thing you can actually accomplish. 

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Glass_Knife    8636


"I want to make an MMORPG" is the common refrain in the For Beginners forum.  After a brief explanation about what "MMO" means, the next week it becomes "I want to make an Online RPG", then after they post a few times in the online forum and discover it requires work, a few weeks later it becomes  "I want to make an offline RPG", then if they bother to follow up, becomes "game programming is stupid. What are good free game makers?" And then a few months after they appeared on the board, they vanish after learning that while playing games is fun and entertaining and a diversion, it is different than making games which requires thought and effort.

 

I was talking about this comedic bit here...

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Durakken    692

frob, I think it should be mentioned that using things like Unity one can easily apply 2D knowledge bases to 3D and that may actually cause people to think it is more easy to do something than it is. And adding what appears to be tiny features can cause a lot of work at either coding or understanding the concept.

 

I've come to the conclusion that what you have to do is to assign yourself homework, to complete small sections and slowly their effects add together to make whatever you want.

 

You can have a big idea if you can break it down and you have to have a good grasp of your skill levels and ability to acquire skills too... and willing to take the time to do it.

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Hauck    234

[...]

 

"I want to make an MMORPG" is the common refrain in the For Beginners forum.  After a brief explanation about what "MMO" means, the next week it becomes "I want to make an Online RPG", then after they post a few times in the online forum and discover it requires work, a few weeks later it becomes  "I want to make an offline RPG", then if they bother to follow up, becomes "game programming is stupid. What are good free game makers?" And then a few months after they appeared on the board, they vanish after learning that while playing games is fun and entertaining and a diversion, it is different than making games which requires thought and effort.

 

[...]

 

I can't count how many people tried learning game dev but gave up after some weeks when they realize how much work takes to make a totally stupid game. I guess I'm one in a million who can have more fun programming (games or not) than actually playing games. Games were part of my childhood (or should I say my entire childhood?) and after growing up I slowly got more selective about games, there are few out there that really can make me get into the game.

 

After some years of programming mostly for web, I realized how great it would be if I could make people have the same fun as I had when younger. Also, it's an unique sensation having all those pixels moving by your command (by your code, not just your clicks, I mean) and see people having fun with them. I guess that's the reason why I can have so much fun building a pacman, a tetris, or whatever the game.

 

It's not by the game itself, but the idea behind it, repaying all the work previous developers have spent with me, and direct this effort to the next generations.

 

 

About what kind of game would be better for starting with 3D, all I can do is recommend the obvious of trying something simply. It's the best way to keep things going forward (maybe slowly, but forward).

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fir    460

The easy begining is to do and render some heightmap terrain, then you could try to do some basic fly simulator or something like that - this is easy,

'for a man knowing opengl it can be done even in 1 day

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JTippetts    12950

JTippetts has a compelling argument for picking something you like, but sadly many beginners don't start small.  
 
I note that JTippetts' goblin project looks like it is now in year 11. That many years, even at a hobby level, disqualifies it from being a beginner project. Over the course of a decade you can move from beginner to veteran.


Heh, true, in a way. The goblin project is only a couple years along, but before that were several isometric experiments and projects that led to it. I did do a lot of 2D stuff before I ever switched to 3D, so the 3D switch was cosmetic only. Still, though, I have always worked on RPGs. It's why I got into game development, so all these silly progressions and learning paths that people try to pawn off just seem, to me, to be specifically engineered to drive a certain type of person away.

Most beginners aren't looking for a decade-long project.


Not necessarily true, and kind of beside the point. Beginner isn't an all-encompassing designation of common characteristics. And making RPGs doesn't have to be a decade-long affair; you can just as easily make smaller ones. Many of the original RPGs I grew up playing were hardly complex.

"I want to make an MMORPG" is the common refrain in the For Beginners forum.  After a brief explanation about what "MMO" means, the next week it becomes "I want to make an Online RPG", then after they post a few times in the online forum and discover it requires work, a few weeks later it becomes  "I want to make an offline RPG", then if they bother to follow up, becomes "game programming is stupid. What are good free game makers?" And then a few months after they appeared on the board, they vanish after learning that while playing games is fun and entertaining and a diversion, it is different than making games which requires thought and effort.


On the other hand, this is an excellent filter for those folks who might just be wasting their time chasing something they don't really want to do. Being a game developer isn't a "right" that everyone possesses. The possibility of it is, sure, but if someone can't stick it out, then they can't stick it out and it's best to find that out as soon as possible. I understand the idea of all these step-by-step progressions that everyone makes. You know, "first make Pong, then make Breakout, then make Tetris, yada, yada, yada." I get it, someone's learned a few things and they want to give a hand up to others. But the good ones, the ones who are really going to make it... well, I doubt they usually do so by sticking to any progression laid out by someone else. Instead, they'll make it by chasing their own dreams and desires with discipline and focus. If they require a roadmap laid out by someone else, then I highly doubt they have the creativity and initiative to really make it happen. You can learn the things you need to learn without ever touching a Pong or Breakout clone, if such games are not your inclination. Following someone else's curriculum just seems counterproductive to me.

My recommendation for beginners is the same as my recommendation for everything:  Build the simplest thing that will possibly work.  The philosophy has worked well for me for two decades.


+1 This is an excellent philosophy to have.

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ferrous    6137

You could make Pong in 3D =)  I did that for some school project a looong time ago.  In fact, I think I did it entirely within a bit blt. (it was one of those low level classes where they teach bresenham's line algorithm)

 

FPS Space games are a nice option, as they don't require all that much to get flying around.  Basic FPS games in general aren't that bad, if you discount networking, AI and graphics and just concentrate on a first person camera moving around and shooting with simple graphics.

Edited by ferrous

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fir    460

 

I note that JTippetts' goblin project looks like it is now in year 11.


11 years? ohmy.png

 

30 for you

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fir    460

In general when doing 3D you must do some milestone steps I know of

 

- setup things and do show some procedural generated scene

- made some camera for it

- made code to load and show some 3d models form some common object format

 

thats where i stopped ;/ (Im doing 2d mostly), If some more experienced

person could add some more points to this list, I suspect that it maybe could be: ? some thing for objects animation, ? some code for objects interaction (collisions etc), ? more advanced lightning/coloring tehniques

 

???

 

it may sound easy but each point on this list takes its time 

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Buster2000    4310

From my own experience the easiest 3d games to make are first person 3d maze type games or very basic FPSs.  Just a bunch of cubes as walls add some user input to move around and some tile based collision and you are halfway there.

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Poigahn    598

Interesting, Very Interesting.  My First 3D game was based off a 1980s space/Planet Exploration Game.  The Game used pixel plotting to simulate 3D Graphics.  Everything was an outline of what it was supposed to represent.  Mountains, Buildings Bridges, Spacecraft were all pixel plotted outlines.  The game had 3 difficulty levels from easy ( Strictly Exploration) to Very Difficult ( High Frequency of attacking enemies ).    There was supposed to be collision detection so that you could not fly through objects, which did not work.

 

So as a Beginner's First 3D Project The game was Simple.  The Game had only 2 spacecraft, yours and the enemy with geosync Space Station.  I began by building My version of these spacecraft  with the 3D modeling software and as they were completed, would animate flight in my code.  The terrain was also kept simple, Sticking to the original game premise, Only expanding it by adding different Models.

 

Basically, In my opinion, as a complete first 3D Game project. Keeping it simple, with a game outline that is equally simple, but that would keep a player's interest would be essential.  In the original game, the exploration required you to discover space artifacts that gave clues on how to secure the planet's safety from enemy attacks.  I accomplished this by randomly placing these items around the Terrain at the beginning of a campaign.

 

Again - Keeping it simple, with something as the programmer, you are interested in

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Ashaman73    13715

I've read lots of articles about 2D games where they suggest a path for development.  

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20051104034215/http://www.lupinegames.com/articles/path_to_dev.html

 

There are many different opinions, but I think starting with Tetris is a great way to go.  But I have been unable to find a comparable 3D game for starting. 

 

So I ask you Gamedev, what do you think is the best clone/genre/style for your first complete 3D game, and why?

A 3d astroid clone.

 

Advantages:

- you dont need vertex/skeletal animation (just models)

- you can use a simple import format (obj)

- you need to render basics (simple particles, simple models,'sky')

- you dont need to render advanced topics like terrain,foilage,skeletal animation

- you need to code/use a simple physics and controls

- no ai needed

- and finally: lot of fun blasting up things (++)

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mmakrzem    1036

I suggest something like pacman, but done in 3D so it becomes a flat dungeon crawler type game.  For an example have a look at my Ghost Toast game: http://www.marekknows.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=531

 

All the collisions are done mainly in 2D so it isn't a giant step to go from 2D to 3D.  The next step after that would be to start tacking on extra height in the level to make things "more" 3D. 

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fir    460

 

 

 

I note that JTippetts' goblin project looks like it is now in year 11.


11 years? ohmy.png
30 for you
Not really :/

 

belive 

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