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Alundra

Unreal Engine 4

56 posts in this topic

I really like the fact that they decided to open source this on GitHub (seems the repo isn't public yet, even though their site claims so...), I love spelunking through AAA engines; the tutorials look pretty great as well.

 

What I can't understand is if/where you are able to download the UE4 UDK without paying the fee (as the registration says you can continue to use it even with a cancelled sub, you just won't get updates), ie: if I just want to bugger around and don't plan on releasing anything, am I still due for a "once-off" $20 payment?.

 

 

EDIT: I think I get the github thing now, seems you need to register through the UE portal, then link your existing github account to the UE portal, for some reason I thought the page was showing people how to sigh up to github...

Edited by Necrolis
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This news will hurts Unity a lot

 

I don't think it will hurt Unity, not by a lot anyway. Of course this is exiting for everyone even remotely interested in game development, and I can't wait for the "how do I do this in C++ with the unreal engine" that are likely to arise.

 

The reason why I don't think this will hurt Unity is simply because of the complexity involved in getting something to work in the unreal engine in contrast to Unity, just the fact that the unreal engine lets you use C++ makes the unreal engine "harder to use" as it will involve more to take into consideration. With unity, you can have a working game in just a few lines of code (so to speak).

 

I think this is more likely to cause a shift where the more serious people/studios that want to do some more advanced stuff with their game will end up having a favor towards the unreal engine whereas people/studios with little experience/expertise or just for small games will still benefit (or also prefer) unity. Or at least, I hope people understand how to use the right tools for the right job ;)

 

I'm curious to see where this is headed though! smile.png

Edited by Rld_
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I could see this hurting smaller C++ engines, like C4 or LeadWerks. Though, even then there are cases where all the power and complex architecture of Unreal would be just an unnecessary burden, and those engines would be more appropriate. And from Epic's own announcement it seems the system demands of UE4 are still high so far.

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This news will hurts Unity a lot

 

I don't think it will hurt Unity, not by a lot anyway. Of course this is exiting for everyone even remotely interested in game development, and I can't wait for the "how do I do this in C++ with the unreal engine" that are likely to arise.

 

The reason why I don't think this will hurt Unity is simply because of the complexity involved in getting something to work in the unreal engine in contrast to Unity, just the fact that the unreal engine lets you use C++ makes the unreal engine "harder to use" as it will involve more to take into consideration. With unity, you can have a working game in just a few lines of code (so to speak).

 

I think this is more likely to cause a shift where the more serious people/studios that want to do some more advanced stuff with their game will end up having a favor towards the unreal engine whereas people/studios with little experience/expertise or just for small games will still benefit (or also prefer) unity. Or at least, I hope people understand how to use the right tools for the right job ;)

 

I'm curious to see where this is headed though! smile.png

 

 

I don't think that is really the case. The c++ source is just an added benefit. You can work with UE4 without touching any c++, as it has a noob friendly visual scripting system. By contrast, Unity requires C# or JavaScript knowledge. Also, Unity Pro costs $1500 or $75/mo (the free version lacks basic features) and with UE4 you get the whole shabang for $19/mo, which makes UE4 the clear winner in my eyes.

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Also, Unity Pro costs $1500 or $75/mo (the free version lacks basic features) and with UE4 you get the whole shabang for $19/mo, which makes UE4 the clear winner in my eyes.


Also, if you stop paying the Unity license then, as I understand it, you can no longer use the tools - with the UE4 setup however if you stop paying you can keep using what you already have up until that moment and only have to re-sub if you want to get updates.


(A note of transparency : I work for a company who work with Epic however I have no intention of misleading anyone smile.png)
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Unity Pro costs $1500 or $75/mo (the free version lacks basic features) and with UE4 you get the whole shabang for $19/mo, which makes UE4 the clear winner in my eyes.

Except that UE4 has the 5% royalties thing, and Unity only has that for consoles.

And it's not 5% on profits. Or 5% on revenue, even. It's 5% of sales, before store cuts.

"When releasing a product using UE4, you're signing up to pay Epic 5% of gross product revenue from users, regardless of what company collects the revenue. That means: If your game makes $10 on the App Store, Apple may pay you $7, but you'd pay Epic $0.50 (5% of $10)."

So it's higher than 5% profit or even 5% revenue. It's 5% of the store price before Microsoft, Valve, Apple, Kickstarter, or other publishers (and credit card companies) take their cut. That's 7% of your revenue, or even higher, depending on the store.

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At first I thought naively that it was freely distributed across the github, until it came right to my face that I've got to pay that small fee. And to be completely honest, I'm almost considering to apply for a month, just to stare at the code behind it.

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I don't think that is really the case. The c++ source is just an added benefit. You can work with UE4 without touching any c++, as it has a noob friendly visual scripting system. By contrast, Unity requires C# or JavaScript knowledge. Also, Unity Pro costs $1500 or $75/mo (the free version lacks basic features) and with UE4 you get the whole shabang for $19/mo, which makes UE4 the clear winner in my eyes.

 

You do have a point there. I am not experienced with the visual scripting system, but from what I have heard it's not that great to work with in terms of getting something more advanced to work, not in contrast to Unity anyway, but I can only guess on that part.

 

For people/studios with programming experience, UE4 (and now also CryEngine it seems) might be the better option in terms of price and features. I haven't worked with the UE4 like I said, but I can imagine that such a huge and feature rich engine might not be the best option for smaller indie developers where the time to learn the engine, how to use it effectively and perhaps also make proper use of C++ will outweigh it's actual usefulness.

 

I might be completely wrong though, but that's how I see it. Fact remains, Unity will lose a portion of its user base as there are always people who want something else, but it will likely be more spread out when the dust has settled. We can only wait and see! :)

 


with the UE4 setup however if you stop paying you can keep using what you already have up until that moment and only have to re-sub if you want to get updates.

Aren't there strings attached to this? I mean.. In that case I could pay for a month, get the engine, cancel subscription and work with what I have. At the start, updates might be vital for some stuff, but there comes a point where updates aren't of such a big relevance that I must need them in order to make a game.

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I think it's incredible value and smaller engines will have to promptly react to the price changes mostly because they will have to be defended in terms of an economical, non-technical comparison.

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Love it, gonna download it maybe tomorrow, play around with it. Also maybe see how they got their reflections working, cubemaps with screenspace raytracing? Either way props to them, I love game jams and there's a lot of small, indie type people that go to them. For that crowd this is going to be a huge win, because Blueprint (or whatever they're calling the scripting) looks to do even more than Unity for just getting things done.

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Aren't there strings attached to this? I mean.. In that case I could pay for a month, get the engine, cancel subscription and work with what I have. At the start, updates might be vital for some stuff, but there comes a point where updates aren't of such a big relevance that I must need them in order to make a game.
The strings are that you still have to pay them 5% royalties laugh.png
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The strings are that you still have to pay them 5% royalties 

Haha yeah of course :D, but let's assume it takes you a year to make your game, that would be 228 dollars, which is 209 dollars you would save for your noodles supply!

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I imagine the percentage of people who had downloaded the previous UDK just to play with it without selling anything made with it it is very high! I know I'm guilty of that. I guess it'a a way to make money out of those.

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Aren't there strings attached to this? I mean.. In that case I could pay for a month, get the engine, cancel subscription and work with what I have. At the start, updates might be vital for some stuff, but there comes a point where updates aren't of such a big relevance that I must need them in order to make a game.


The 5% aside the 'catch' would be that if you come across something which is broken then you are either a) stuck with it, b) fixing it yourself or c) paying another $19 to catch up and merge all that you've missed out on.

You'd also not get new features, fixes, platforms etc as they hit mainline.

From Epics point of view, if you pay once and never release anything they've made $19 they wouldn't have otherwise.
If you pay once and release something then you owe them 5% they wouldn't have had otherwise.
If you keep paying and release something then they have the N*$19 + 5%.

It's a case of what is it worth to YOU and how does it contrast with other engines in the market for your usage.

Personally, I'd pay the $19 once just to get a look at the code and decide from there, it's not a huge amount of cash after all and worst comes to the worst you can learn something to boot.
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The strings are that you still have to pay them 5% royalties 

Haha yeah of course biggrin.png, but let's assume it takes you a year to make your game, that would be 228 dollars, which is 209 dollars you would save for your noodles supply!

 

you might still want to pay those $19/month to get all the updates (features+fixes), being outdated for a year might make you miss quite some important changes.

 

yet it makes me wonder, if one license per company is enough. if you can legally subscribe for one month and keep the source after that and work with it, you could just as good create a local git repository with it and the company works with it. or do they require that every new hire should subscribe for a month?

bit confusing.

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From the sounds of it, I thought it was $19 per seat.
[edit]
 
 

b.   Distribution to other licensees - You may Distribute Engine Code licensed to you under this Agreement (including as modified by you under the License) in Source Code or object code format, or any Asset provided to you without additional charge by Epic, to an Engine Licensee who has rights under its license to the same Version of the Engine Code or Asset that you are Distributing.
....
Can I share the Unreal Engine source code or tools with others?
You can share the source code or tools, along with any modifications you’ve made, with anyone who is an Unreal Engine licensee who is authorized to access the same version of the engine as yours, e.g. the 4.x.x version number of your installed build.

Yeah, if one person on the team licenses the code and then shares it with the rest of the team (who have not paid their $19 dues), then it would be a breach of your agreement with Epic.

Whenever you update, everyone on the team has to pay the $19 again to update to the new version. Edited by Hodgman
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The 5% aside the 'catch' would be that if you come across something which is broken then you are either a) stuck with it, b) fixing it yourself or c) paying another $19 to catch up and merge all that you've missed out on.

You'd also not get new features, fixes, platforms etc as they hit mainline.

 

...

 

Well yeah of course, this is all in the eye of the user. Epic will always get money in one way or the other, although I can imagine that the engine will eventually show up somewhere on the internet and a one time purchase is all you'd ever need. 

 

It's all weighting pros and cons in the end, but I like where this is going.

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Yeah, that's how I would have expected it to be - pretty standard 'per seat' license agreement.

the 'standard' is usually, once you stop paying the monthly or annual fee, you're not allowed to use the software anymore.

Epic's license is really quite relaxed, as you can keep the source and work with it (just no updates).

yet I wish there was a way like with Qt, where you could check out the source without licensing it for commercial use. just wondering how clean and well designed their code is :)

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So it's higher than 5% profit or even 5% revenue. It's 5% of the store price before Microsoft, Valve, Apple, Kickstarter, or other publishers (and credit card companies) take their cut. That's 7% of your revenue, or even higher, depending on the store.
 

 

Don't forget the government! They'll take several cuts. By the time everyone is finished, you'll probably be left with 40%.

Edited by Chris_F
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